@pratik I don’t think there’s any debate about enforcement. Only whether they want to say anything at all about the specific conduct. That said, I think we both know you didn’t violate the guidelines and the person responding is not calling on them in good faith— or at least their intent is to try and use the tools that are meant to stop abuse to stop speech that person doesn’t like, a common tactic. Maybe this is my privilege or just my move from years of social media, but he’s just screaming to be blocked and ignored.
I think we both know you didn’t violate the guidelines.
I have not heard this officially from Micro.blog although I’ve heard privately from many. I just wish more people like you & @cygnoir would speak out publicly. Not necessarily to support me explicitly or condemn anyone but to speak to the general concept of the discussion.
One other person disagreed on a different aspect. I had no issues with my discussion with him and even appreciated his perception/reading of the issue.
@pratik I think you were fine, and your original post—as well as your explanatory replies—all seemed like criticism rather than attacks. Seemed like somebody was looking for a fight for whatever reasons and your post was a trigger for him. FWIW I'm pretty squarely in the middle of the six or whatever categories named in that thread and I thought everything you said was pretty accurate 😁
@pratik I’m unsure what reply that you are referring to, so I’m not doubting your observation here. However, the other day when I was catching up with this thread, I found that if I clicked on one post of the thread on the timeline, only a certain section of the complete thread showed up. I had to go onto individuals’ profiles and access a section of the thread from there to read it (this from the official iOS, MacOS apps and MB website). I, personally, was unable to access the complete thread in one go. @manton @jean
@crossingthethreshold @pratik I think that's right. Most likely some reply in the middle had been deleted and it caused the thread to get split apart, because that reply had been sort of tying things together. Need to think about how to improve this. (Either leave the reply as a blank placeholder or rejoin the other replies back to the original post.)
@pratik I think there is a lot about this situation that would be ideal for the community-made group conversations that we briefly spoke about at the last Micro Camp.
I'm unsure if anybody would be comfortable taking part in such a thing, though my initial thought was that it would be good to have a series of discussions given the extraordinarily complicated nature of the issues laid out here — I'm not sure the word intersection comes close to adequately defining it at all but it's the best word I can think of — as well as follow-up group meetings about recording some of the results of the conversations.
Maybe there is even more work that could be done with that, since I truly believe the community is better off if everybody is given a chance to contribute beyond just blog posts and replies in the timeline.
I did want to do this immediately after Micro Camp but uh... life and all... so hopefully there is still some interest in this kind of thing, now that I'm able to make myself much more available.
@bix I’m afraid that person doesn’t know the concept behind #NotAllMen (I will not run a graduate seminar here) but not everyone does. But I definitely thought people running an online community network did. Now I’m not sure.
BTW yeah, thought you vanished. Haven’t heard from you in a long time.
@pratik I guess it doesn’t help much in this situation, but I’ve broadly taken the tack that I don’t get involved with conversations that have folks like your accuser in them— it just fuels the shit they’re trying to stir. I do think I read Manton more clearly saying, “not going to talk about it here” than maybe was stated in his “let’s cool off”. My take there was “this is not a conversation for public (or now)”. But not being directly involved lets me read and experience it differently and I get that.
@pratik I am 100% new here but this whole situation is making reconsider staying.
I hope my last reply wasn't out of line. I'll remove it if you think it was. I admit to being somewhat too quick to jump in with my two cents, but moderation is something I have experience at, to a certain extent.
@jsonbecker Thanks for your input. I’ve tried lately to not comment on others’ posts if I disagree (I’m not gonna change anyone’s mind anyway) but if someone comments on my post, I feel the need (urge?) to reply. Perhaps I should curb that too.
@pratik i haven’t been on mb for a couple of days so am catching up all at once and wow. I don’t understand at all what was supposedly an attack from you. You described a certain group of people (who do have privilege) as having privilege. Clear, simple, not a lot to parse there.
I do understand using rules of courtesy as a way to silence others cuz women get that shit a lot. Doing so publicly as a tactic of social shaming to get someone in line is gross. Sad to see it on mb.
I know exactly zero about community moderation. I can imagine it’s a difficult job.
My son recently had a false report filed against him. After reviewing the statements and interviewing the people involved, the caseworker changed the status to an “inappropriate report.” That seems about right for this situation too.
@pratik I'll speak out publicly and say I too didn't read what you wrote as an attack, rather as a criticism. Considering what we've seen happening on a global stage, but especially in American politics (Roe v. Wade as but one example), there's real world validity behind that criticism. The fact that what you said was triggering enough to bring about—what I also believe—an invalid knee-jerk reaction, could've instead been an opportunity for reflection. As @cygnoir previously mentioned, perhaps that was a moment to sit with that trigger, and honestly ask why that's the case.
Maybe, just maybe, that criticism struck a nerve because there's uncomfortable truth behind it. No different than someone acting like a complete asshole in public; they shouldn't turn around and act surprised if sooner or later they get flipped the proverbial or literal bird. If after reflection there were still concerns that needed to foster further discussion, there are tools to do so. Calling you out in public while brandishing and weaponizing the guidelines was not one of them, in my opinion. @jsonbecker
@ddanielson thanks for your response. But I’m not sure I agree with your assessment of response. If the accusation was public and resolution was private, that’s empowering the accuser as basically he has achieved his aim. If you think a company endorses a view if they say it doesn’t violate community guidelines then the reverse is also true. That is, by not denying the public accusation of the violation, the company is endorsing the accuser. Right now, it feels, as @manton seemed to agree with your assessment, the company is more wary about being cognizant to what he would feel.
@Annie Thanks. I thought my post especially on here was preaching to the choir, no pun intended 😅 so was very surprised by that reaction. But the reaction although surprising wasn’t my issue. It’s just a case of, as we say in Hindi, _ चोर की दाढ़ी में तिनका_, loosely translated, A guilty conscience needs no accuser.
@pimoore Thanks, Pete. We have had theoretical discussions about this on Micro.blog but finally we got to test it out. Jury is still out on how we handled it but getting better now.
@jasonekratz Dunno. Reflexively, he did what his privilege has imbibed in him - weaponize the system and slink away leaving the accused to prove themselves innocent.
@jasonekratz hmm…I’m not seeing in on my blog anymore although I see his follow-up replies. Even @crossingthethreshold mentioned about the thread looking broken. Now this better not turn into a tech help thread 🙃
@jasonekratz @pratik I see the replies as well in the original thread, though same as you I don’t see humdrum’s.
@pratik @ddanielson That is not what I meant. Anyway, if you want a longer answer from "the company" you'll have to wait for us to meet. 🙂 I think @jean was considering writing something. I'm just trying to give my impression of where we can learn from this, and how we can improve our public statements and the guidelines.
@manton Ok. I’ll go to sleep now. BTW I did see a screenshot today with Micro.blog LLC Guess it is a company 🙃
@humdrum @pimoore @jasonekratz @pratik This is what happens when somebody deletes a reply, as Manton mentioned earlier. I can't tell who it was, though it looks like Robert hasn't deleted a thing.
