@help I think I read somewhere that cross posting can be selective. True? If so, how?
@tomliv In the iOS app, you can toggle it per-post in with the gear icon on the post composition screen (though the text implies that it is “sticky” and will be remembered until you turn it on again). On the web, go to Account, Edit Feeds & Cross-posting, and press the Disable cross-posting button corresponding to the feed you want to turn off. Make your post, then turn it back on. // @help
(That said, this really needs to be a section in the Cross-posting help article.)
@tomliv No problem. The editor on the web has recently gotten the ability assign categories at posting time, so it’s possible that toggling cross-posting will make its way to that button in the future, too. // @manton
@simonwoods @tomliv @smokey I'm always worried about cluttering the posting screen, but now that we have the little "..." button that might be another place to put a cross-posting option. Because cross-posting works with any feed, this is less obvious a feature than it seems (and there's a work-around to just turn off cross-posting globally).
As for the mindset, Tom, I understand completely. Not only did I need some time to make adjustments but I've seen the vast majority of newcomers go through the same process. One of the good things about this is that it is a litmus for test with regard to how one thinks about the social web, silos and all.
@manton @simonwoods @smokey @tomliv I really think this needs to be a post by post selection with an easy interface. It should include disconnecting cross posting to MB. There are so many times I want to post to my blog and perhaps Twitter, but I don't want to post it to MB and I have to let the thought go because I'm not going to, in effect, crawl down to the basement and pull a fuse just for one post. Which is what I feel I have to do now.
@manton @simonwoods The cross posting is a great feature, but choice is also a value along with selectivity of audience. I view the social network side of MB as an interesting but placid dinner party and as a proper dinner guest I don't want to bring up those dredded 3 topics I was taught to avoid (religion, politics and sex.) Because, I like and respect the MB community I'm a part of and don't want to be seen as trolling. Twitter is a different audience and I don't mind giving it a good straifing run now and then. OTOH, I'm a blogger and sometimes I want to get a bit ranty on the blog (and probably Twitter) but not on MB. So what I'd like is an off switch where for an individual post I can selectively turn off posting to MB (or Twitter) for just that post.
My original goal was to make my MB blog my common place book, but I want the blog to be that not necessarily the MB feed. The pressure I'm feeling is that I need to start a seperate blog for politics, current affairs when I really want to keep everything on one blog.
It's a lot of extra work, right now, to go down into the admin panel, disconnect MB and/or Twitter, make my post, then go back into the admin panel and reactivate my defaults.
@bradenslen Agree with a lot of what you're saying. Still a little unsure about making the Micro.blog just another broadcasting target. Either way I still prefer the cross-posting to not be exclusively tied up with the blog hosting; right now it is a hosted feature, since it can also work with external feeds, and I like that a lot. // @manton
@bradenslen A counterpoint might be: MB’s social side is completely self-selected and no one or nothing is injecting random content into anyone’s Mb feed. You follow people you are interested to hear from, and don’t follow people you don’t. Users curate their own experience, so arguably no poster really needs to worry about what they are posting.
@bradenslen @manton @simonwoods @fgtech Brad’s points echo my thoughts earlier this year about intentional sharing and community norms, and it feels like there’s just a little bit of missing flexibilty with hosted blogs to facilitate that; Brad’s not the first person I’ve encountered trying to figure out a good way to post something to the blog but keep it off the Timeline and related. Of course, the devil is in the (implementation/UI) details—particularly here since a feed going into M.b-the-social-space is also needed for cross-posting to corporate social silos….
@fgtech I still don’t get what the issue is. Now people want to bring in the “lurk and see how people post” idea, except if you do that what you see is, e.g., people use the books, tv, and movies tagmoji to, often, just post or cross-post their activity from other sites where they track those things. In which case, the “community” has spoken with their actions already and that approach has been accepted. What am I missing here?
@smokey So, I was talking to @fgtech about this, and I'm confused about how this "intentional sharing" post applies in this case. It's one thing to say we want slightly more granular tools for bloggers when it comes to what goes to their M.b social feed. It's another to bring the “lurk first" argument into it, because in case of M.b's social side, it's the potential follower who must "read the room” before deciding who to follow, not the blogger before deciding what to post. The blogger is posting to people who have decided to follow them, making a Usenet group comparison beside the point.
@bix The lurking reference was only one part of the larger thrust arguing that we should understand and respect a community’s rules and norms, and I maintain that, as bloggers, we should only share/syndicate content that’s appropriate for the community. Even if someone has no followers, their posts still become part of the community (and, on Micro.blog, are exposed in several ways: the person’s profile, the Discover tagmoji sections, and, potentially, the manual Discover section—via the all-posts feed; Manton and Jean and any future co-curators will always have to see your posts), and those posts reflect on the community to anyone finds them. If someone new/looking sees that there are a bunch of people on Micro.blog who only post, say, checkins and their Twitter like history, the visitor is not going to think Micro.blog is a good place for blogging.
It also applies in Brad’s case (and, I believe, in the case that prompted my intentional sharing post) when an existing member considers/decides to share a new type of content to the Timeline, whether as “posts” on one’s own blog or some other feed related to that person. There are no rules against politics, but our norms seem to have settled on a certain careful, moderated approach to them (and Brad thought he would be making some number of “trolling” posts that would violate those norms). Likewise, our norms have coalesced around not sharing every single daily checkin/Twitter like/bookmark/read post, so deciding to hook those up to your Micro.blog account once you set them up on your website would “violate” our norms, regardless of whether you had any followers (and if you did have some, they would be doubly annoyed by the change in post composition that also goes contrary to our norms).
Or, to put it another way, we don’t want any weeds in the garden, regardless of whether they’re in a part of the garden no one sees; their presence in the garden is a bad thing in and of itself, and we all should be careful not to bring weed seeds into the garden when we come and visit.
(I’m not sure if that has made things any clearer or not; the path from my brain to the screen has more rocks on it than I expected.) // @fgtech
@smokey I guess I just find that perspective over-zealous. When it comes to someone’s followers, no one owes them anything except posting from who they are as a person. That's blogging, and people change how they feel and how they want to communicate. Followers can stop following them at any time. Nor does someone have a responsibility to adhere to “norms” for the sake of people stopping by their profile page; site rules, sure. But some sense of norms or behavioral trends? Nah. The response of member of a community to something that offends their sense of community norms rather than rules is, frankly, shunning. I mean, as it is, for example, I rarely browse the Books, Movies, or TV tagmoji because those feeds are mostly populated by check-in style posts; so the idea that Micro.blog norms have coalesced around not doing that doesn't even seen to withstand scrutiny. But barring site rules against doing that, certainly no one owes me site norms that fill the Books, Movies, or TV feeds with real observations, discussions, and commentary.
@smokey I agree with your intentional sharing post and what you have written here. I do have a slightly different perspective: I think the blog hosting part of MB should have the option of standing alone as just a blog, without every post being welded into the MB social network. If I remember right, even on Facebook, you have some control over who can see a given post in the timeline: ie. Close Friends, Followers, Everyone, etc. I'm not advocating that here but it is a form of intentional sharing.
(IMHO there are some other features needed to make the hosted blogs more stand alone: option for Comments on the blog would be one, option to receive replies from non-hosted blogs is another.)
There is a commercial aspect to this too: it's the blog hosting that supports MB financially. The more the hosted blogs can stand on their own compared to the competition the more people will stay with their MB hosted blog rather than switching to some other blog platform like Wordpress. Maybe I'm too old school, but I evaluate any blog platform based upon the feature set irregardless of social networks, how easy it is to impliment the features, and how much control I have over my blog. I also recognize that implementing those things are not easy. I also recognize that @manton has thought about all this, if it were a chess game, many more moves out than I'm capable of and I trust his judgement.
@smokey I agree with @bix that this sounds a little “over-zealous.” My blog and its content come first, and communities/norms/rules come second. I own my content: I post it on my blog, which is out on the Internet, visible to anyone in the universe with a browser. It’s not exclusively a part of Micro.blog, even if it’s a M.b-hosted blog. That my posts are also accessible to M.b folks who have chosen to integrate them into their timelines by “following” me is of secondary concern to me. (They don’t want to hear my incessant fart jokes anymore? Okay: they can mute me, or unfollow me. Or they could actually engage with me, asking what’s the deal with all these fart jokes? — or, at worst, they can report me.)
I think this conversation got muddy when people started talking about why they might want only some of their content to feed into Micro.blog. I don’t care about the “why,” and I’m not sure why anyone else does either (especially since there’s no single “because”). I only care about the functionality that’s being discussed: Can I selectively cross-post my M.b content to other services, can I selectively cross-post content from other services to M.b, and can I do this easily?
(Apologies if I’m missing something here, because I’ve read through this conversation several times, and I keep feeling like I might be missing something.)
(And please be mindful of the “weed” metaphor. “Weed” is a problematic category, defined solely by a thing’s perceived value and usefulness. Neither an algorithm nor a community’s rules and norms can predict or accurately prescribe what I’m going to find valuable or useful. Heck, most of the time, even I can’t predict what I’ll find valuable or useful… So: let in the weeds!)
@bix @smokey Confession: The norm that only certain content is welcome on MB has influenced my decision to spend more time on Wordpress and Twitter, compared to MB. I’m very fond of the community here and I respect it. But the tone is kinda dinner at Grandmas and I didn’t want to distress ppl with my swearing and memes and politics. Then I got tired of maintaining multiple online presences... and well, long story short, that’s why I post here less often. This isn’t a complaint, BTW. Just another data point. 🙃
@rnv And to be clear on my position: I certainly have nothing against there being more granular tools for sending M.b hm blog posts here, there, or anywhere (since that’s how this all began). I just feel like we got off the rails somewhere turning this into a conversation on what’s “allowed” when the issue was actually about how users can fine-tune their own cross-posting when they want to.
@Cheri My solution to that is simple (not to mention that until this thread I’d never seen nor heard of these community norms): I swear and I talk politics on my blog. If someone doesn’t like that they don’t have to follow me, and if it shouldn’t be in any public feeds then make it a rule not some mystery norm.
@bradenslen for me it comes down to this: nevermind the why, but as a paying m.b user i'd simply like to have the option of posting to my blog without every post appearing in the timeline. and it should be as easy as toggling a button when i'm writing a post.
of course, i could pull my feed from the timeline and then actively refeed selected posts to m.b via my pinboard rss (something i've experimented with) -- but it should be easier than this.
@bix Yes, exactly, that was my impression, too. I wasn’t quite sure why the conversation shifted the way it did. I mean, okay, I’m glad people are so thoughtful and mindful, it implies they all really respect this community, and that’s great. But communities are shaped by the individuals who show up and participate, so I’d hate to think that interesting people were self-censoring themselves, or even deciding not join in the first place, simply because it’s all too “dinner at Grandma’s” for them (as @cheri so aptly puts it — an impression of M.b I sometimes have, too, by the way)…
@tomliv This is a meaty and very valuable thread. One of my first wishes (1.5 years ago?) after joining MB was an easy way to control cross-posting on each post. Some small steps closer since then but NTY.
I am very glad this community is a place where there can be a grandma sort of timeline but I agree it shouldn’t just be for grandma (I tend to think of it more like the timeline is safe for a corporate dinner, some grandmas aren’t so shy! and let’s not be sexist). I’d like to see an expansion of topics while at the same time still enforcing requirements for civility in discourse. I hope those aren’t mutually exclusive. I’ve seen some long threads of disagreement which remained civil so that encourages me.
I tend to think the suggestions on this thread would help expand the diversity of the community (again, as long as a degree of civility is maintained). I know I avoid posting on a range of topics because of the ‘grandma’ factor as well as the lack of diversity (meaning certain topics just go into a black hole).
@ronguest At one time I spent a looong time in private emails trying to get "civility in discourse" included as one of the standards for posting here. I did not succeed, perhaps because it might then raise the issue of how would it be enforced or should it be? With a tiny staff, we can probably never expect such standards to ever be required. Civility is only enforced by the community as a "norm" not by an explicit requirement in the rules. As long as this is a tiny community with a tiny staff, I concluded we cannot expect any more than that.
@ronguest @macgenie @manton Um, wow. This post blew up. Didn’t see that coming. I mean, I’m just an MB noob who noticed a lacking feature. I don’t want posts here going to my Twitter feed. I am just not feeling they have the same purpose. And as someone in the thread mentioned - sorry I can remember who and there’s no reply all - I don’t want to take a trip to the basement to pull a fuse so I can keep a post from going all over the internet.
That said, I am impressed by the thoughtfulness of everyone and it’s a perfect example why I’d rather not have places like the Twitterverse constantly connected to what I post here.
I think it’s safe to say all or most agree that more cross-posting control would be nice to have.
@bradenslen I agree about evaluating features and that should continue to be a focus for us. It is possible to use Micro.blog for blogging only and disconnect it from the timeline, but that also removes the cross-posting to Twitter, etc. We're probably missing some options in the middle between "all" and "nothing".
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