Michigan’s Arabs and Muslims push to defeat Biden in critical state
For certain individual followers of President Biden who pooh-poohed the notion that Arabs and Muslims would throw their vote to The Orange One Who Shall Not Be Named, I have a very specific retort.
Come and get it... if you dare.
@paulcraig901 Ok. I'll bite 🙃 They are free to make that ill-informed decision of not only not voting for Biden but also actively campaigning against him. As I have always said, the American electoral system is a zero-sum-outcome. Any absent vote that would have gone to Biden is actually a vote for Trump. The article also mentions how Trump would be a far worse President for their cause ("Trump has pledged not to allow any Palestinian refugees to come to the United States, they add, and he has used dehumanizing rhetoric about Palestinians and Muslims") I guess you do follow @wrenman too who makes this clear multiple times a week here on Micro.blog.
Also, I don't understand this strategy:
Hammoud, Farhat and other Arab American elected officials refused to meet with Biden campaign manager Julie Chavez Rodriguez when she visited Michigan last week. Farhat and Hammoud said there is no point in talking to administration officials until Biden calls for a cease-fire.
It's not like America has full authority over Israel. Netanyahu especially is not an ally of the Democratic Party, and he prefers Trump to be in power so he can effectively wipe out Palestine and clear out Gaza. It's damned if I do and damned if I don't scenario for Biden.
BTW Zogby is not a reliable pollster so I imagine there's some mischief going on on their part.
@pratik I'm beginning to believe you're a masochist.
Why the f--- should they meet with the campaign manager when Biden's unwilling to call for a cease fire?
I know the US has no control over Israel. No one does. Not the point. Biden should call for a cease fire.
Their strategy makes no sense. You're right. Doesn't matter. Israel's way over the line.
Pollster reliability? Don't care. The sentiment is out there. I'm hearing it from Muslims I know.
Still want your retort?
@paulcraig901 Well, as I said, they make the choice and have to live under a Trump presidency, under which they are worse off. I'll be slightly better than them, but you live with your consequences.
Don't understand how I'm more masochist than they are, considering they're asking Biden to ask for a ceasefire knowing that such a demand will have no effect on what Israel does but only weakens the U.S. position ("You don't ask for anything until you are assured that you will get it." - geopolitics 101). They want a token reassurance. Also, let's not offer anecdotes as evidence.
@pratik Then give them token reassurance & make sure they vote D in November.
The contortions you undertake to avoid saying anything negative about Dear Leader Biden furthers my loss of faith in humanity, specifically in academia.
@paulcraig901 If the leaders meet with the Biden campaign, perhaps they can. Discussions in an election year are not as clear-cut as you like. Expressing open support for a cease-fire has repurcussions on other voting blocs and open to demonization and Democrats as being labeled as "weak". But then you know all this as you were not born yesterday.
I think you want me and everyone else to criticize Biden more than anything else, and I doubt you have the benefit of Muslims in mind. I have mentioned other things I disagree with Biden on, but this is not one of them. Also, this is an election year. Academics are often vilified coz perhaps we rise above base instincts and have an understanding of how long-term politicking works
@pratik I’m not asking for overall criticism of Biden. I’m saying every decent human being should be telling the President to condemn genocide… and they should be condemning him for not doing so. It’s genocide. This shouldn’t be hard. As for your doubt of my concern for Muslims… (1)
@pratik … their faith has nothing to do with the issue. Human beings… children… are dying. There’s no excuse for the systematic extermination of human beings.
As for academics, you justified my criticism in your attempt to portray yourself as better than anyone else. (2)
@pratik I've removed the last post I just made. You continue to make insinuations about my positions and character... in public. I've added this conversation to my screenshot collection. I'm going to instruct politely... move on.
@paulcraig901 The ICJ couldn't call it genocide, which was the specific request in front of the court. So hardly matters if you think it is. Thanks for painting all academics with the same brush as me.
@patrickrhone But..but have you criticized Biden today?
Jokes aside, I always try to have a good faith debate and back up my assertions with links or data. But I can’t help if people perceive it wrongly. Oh well…such is life.
@pratik @paulcraig901 I am just chiming in here on the specific point of the ICJ. While they did not call it genocide, they did not say that it wasn't genocide. The case is ongoing, and they are in fact, concerned that it is genocide and are calling on Israel to take immediate action.
www.motherjones.com/politics/...
The United Nations’ top court ruled Friday that a case brought by South Africa alleging Israel is committing genocide in Gaza will go forward. While the legal battle will play out for years, the court said Israel must take steps now to prevent genocide and get more humanitarian aid into Gaza.
@Denny That’s my point. It’s not an easy decision to make. It’s defined very specifically to avoid the term being abused (it happened in India last week). So if an international court of law with no political or other compunctions has trouble being precise, then we ought to reconsider. I say this while totally admitting that Israel’s actions now are disproportionate and are not considerate of civilian casualties. But for an American citizen to make a war that their country is not directly involved in THE single-issue on determining whether we end up electing a fascist or not is mind boggling to me.
But for an American citizen to make a war that their country is not directly involved in...
We could probably go back and forth on this point. As far as I'm concerned, given the US funding/supplying of Israel, it might as well be direct involvement. The US has enabled them for decades and contiunes to do so. We've been on the wrong side of this for decades. It's not just the question of genocide but also apartheid and that should not be shrugged off.
And Biden is in pretty deep in terms of his long and historical support of Israel. And Americans are a safe distance from this violence so can afford to not be affected by it. In general it seems that Americans are woefully ignorant of US foreign policy and the violence done in their name. Ignorant but not innocent.
I'll vote for Biden but I deeply resent, I despise the Democrats and the establishment they represent. I fear the fascism that Trump would bring but... well, this could easily turn into a much larger blog post.
The US is corrupted and broken. And not just it's government but it's citizenry that refuse to take responsibility, let alone action. It's tragic that it was someone like Trump who was able to connect to half the population. To stir their frustration and direct it as he has towards fascism. But on this "side" of things most people still seem comfortable with the status quo. The "left" is largely dominated by a fairly comfortable, lightly liberal middle class that is unwilling to act. Those that are willing to act are mocked and considered to be too left, too progressive, etc.
Anyhoo, as I said, that's best written as a blog post rather than a comment.
We've been on the wrong side of this for decades.
Understatement ☺️ Since 1953 (Iran). Things Americans have tolerated to be considered the #1 country in the world. I’m relatively new here. But think about that, millions still choose to move here so it can’t be all that bad compared to where they come from. It’s all relative, man.
@pratik Dealing with that paragraph would keep me occupied for weeks of blog posts starting with the origins of the country in land theft through to slavery and on and on. Hundreds of years of violence and exploitation leading to our status as a predominant post WWII super power. And all the violence that we have unleashed across the globe in the 70+ years since. Intervention after intervention. The "greatest" nation in all the wrong ways.
Americans love to pretend our violent history and ongoing violence is for the greater good of the world. A necessary evil.
I just call it evil.
@khurtwilliams Yes, EXACTLY THIS. White, middle class America is blind to the foundational violence of the US and how it continues to manifest in 2024. But not exactly blind, it's more of a manicured, maintained willful ignorance. Social justice movements here are largely ignored by most on what passes for the left. At least that's been my experience and observaton over the past 30 years.
@pratik > millions still choose to move here so it can’t be all that bad compared to where they come from.
I’m an immigrant who has lived in the USA since 1986. My wife is an immigrant, too. So … the reason people keep coming here is that the USA does a good job of marketing how the good and downplaying the bad. It’s a big con.
@pratik I have nothing to criticize him about. He's doing the best he can in a horrible situation. I can't even pretend to know any better or that I would be able to do any better especially knowing it would make little difference.
My heart goes out to the millions of lambs caught in the middle of the wolves.
My heart goes out to the millions of lambs caught in the middle of the wolves.
But are we not the wolves? I think this is a critical component of the equation that we in the US are blind to. At what point does our financial support bind us to these events? At what point does our sale of weapons and munitions being used by Israel bind us to these events?
We go far too easy on ourselves in our role in Israel and around the world. It's convenient and relatively easy to turn our gaze to our local entertainments and distractions.
Were I to ask my fellow US citizens: What have you done to protest?
What have we done to protest?
I believe the vast majority would have to answer: nothing.
History will judge us harshly.
Americans love to pretend our violent history and ongoing violence is for the greater good of the world. A necessary evil.
THIS. Couldn't agree more!
@Denny @pratik I specifically avoid discussing politics online and I will certainly avoid a back and forth about this particular issue because it is not at all simple.
You will have to take my empathy at face value, know I do have thoughts beyond that, and hope that one day we can break bread and discuss them together.
@patrickrhone @denny @pratik I may take a hard stance against doing this myself too. Nothing good ever comes from it, despite the best of intentions or even simply venting frustration.
@pimoore Especially when it comes to electoral politics in an election year, these conversations always go south. If people feel compelled to give their opinion for whatever reason, I think the best practice for those who may disagree is just to read it and let it go. I've never, ever, not once, not ever, never ever even once seen someone change their mind from an internet argument--and I've seen a lot of them. Change is gradual and requires openness and such conditions result from internal processes, never online arguments.
@jabel This reminded me that I sometimes make short, bemused comments on the political scene. I think I need to stop doing even that. If someone tried to follow up by engaging in political debate, I'd just drop out; which means to me that I shouldn't have made the comment in the first place.
@pratik > The exodus ramps up but may also be a function of the population growth rate and wealth increase.
It’s not the same generation as my wife’s dad, who came here with one suitcase, etc., in the 1970s from a poor family in Gujarat. From personal experience, the Indians coming to the USA now are not from poor families.
@JohnBrady @pimoore @patrickrhone @pratik If we can’t discuss it here openly, then I think we are complicit in sticking our heads in the sand, and as @denny suggested, going back to distracting ourselves with entertainment and nothing changes.
@khurtwilliams Well, it’s a bad enough sign that the rich are choosing to move to another country but also the poor are traveling at great peril to US and Canada, countries that are not exactly geographically near.
@khurtwilliams Fair point, and I don't disagree. Problem is the line between the appearance of complacency by sticking one's head in the sand, and sheer overwhelm, has been greatly blurred these days. Speaking for myself, I feel genuine fear, anger, and existential dread about economic inequality, climate change, and growing geopolitical and societal crisis, every single day. There are times I literally feel helpless against all of it, and complete uncertainty about the future. I've no doubt many others have already withdrawn from these kinds of conversations online.
It's not just about the reactionary results that many of them end up triggering, it's a protection mechanism. Sometimes it's hard to talk about finding the answers when it legitimately feels like there are none to be garnered.
@khurtwilliams Some of us, it appears to me, want M.B. to be a major part of their social and political lives. Others, I think, keep a lot of their social and political lives elsewhere, so it's unwise to draw conclusions about anyone's social responsibility, activism etc. based only on their M.B. participation.
@JohnBrady @khurtwilliams Please keep in mind the global nature of Micro.Blog. If I could mute the topic of US politics, especially election-related posts then I would. Of course Americans may wish to discuss that topic but the specifics are of no interest to me as a Kiwi living in Aotearoa. I don't participate in those discussions because they're not relevant for me. I might or might not choose to discuss NZ politics. I wouldn't expect folks from other countries to be interested or to participate.
Problem is the line between the appearance of complacency by sticking one's head in the sand, and sheer overwhelm, has been greatly blurred these days.
Yes, this. Also: I was one of those who believed American violence was a force for good. I no longer believe so. Part of my journey away was realizing how often the urgency and moral pressure that underlined the call to American violence played a part in blinding me to alternatives. It has led me to keep those who yell and point fingers about urgent issues at arms length, even if I agree with them on every other point, including the urgency. Those voices rarely soften, those fingers almost never retract, and I’m left overwhelmed and useless.