Castro Podcasts brooksreview.net

@ben Nailed it.

@ben I disagree, and your analogy is flawed. Not all podcasts are created equally. Some podcasts have one narrative in them, these you listen to in their absolute entirety (think Serial). Others are like magazines where you can choose to read a few articles or the parts you are interested in only (think The Talk Show which meanders in and out of topics). Few podcasts are so compelling that even the ad reads are fun (think Hello Internet), I dunno maybe like a good weblog from the 2006 with relevant google ads?

@ben How do you feel about podcasts, though?

@ben Do you think people read every word of your writing?

They never skim a little, scroll to the conclusion, or skip a post?

Should anyone who ever does those stop reading your site, or just stop reading anything?

@marco “People need to stop settling for a table of contents and demand better books/magazines!”

@ben I’ve been mulling over how to respond to this, because I have a lot to say.

I was writing and re-writing my response, trying to find the right balance of being open-minded and yet still get my thoughts across.

But in the end, I think it all boils down to me being a fan of podcasts and you, not so much.

Castro is a podcast app - for people who listen to podcasts. It’s understandable how a person who doesn’t like podcasts, who loathes podcasts, would have no use for the app.

I just don’t understand why you wrote anything about it. It’s like me writing to complain about the Left Hand shop selling neon green scissors, when I’m right-handed? 🤷🏻‍♀️

@vishae That echo'd my sentiments almost entirely! There was literally no need to have at the medium itself & all the creators considering the (what 400k?) shows that are active out there. (I couldn't come up with a response in a couple tries either so thought I'd try again later :))

@ben If you don’t like podcasts (which to me is a bit like saying you don’t like music or don’t like books, but whatever) why are you reviewing a podcast app? Why would you even own a podcast app?

@marco my opinion The more “professional sounding” a podcast becomes—Ie Produced and tightly edited—the less interesting it becomes.

Meandering is the beauty of the medium. It’s the killer feature.

@ben I’ll give you an anecdotal case. I listen to a comic book review podcast. The first part of the show is comic reviews. The second half of the show is more banter and less content heavy, so I often skip that section to get to the end.

@ben I listen to a lot of longer podcasts with segments many would find "boring", interviews and event coverage. And happily Downcast has speed changes and chapter selection, which makes those more efficient. I'd rather have one 2-hour cast than six 20-minute ones.

@ras (is the podcast you reference here Serious Issues by any chance?)

@eli No, should I be listening to that one? I was talking about iFanboy.

@ras I wouldn’t say it is a must listen, but I enjoy serious issues. They open each episode reviewing that week’s number 1s, then work their way through all of the week’s Marvel, DC, Image, and assorted other releases.

@eli I'll check it out. What's funny is I really listen to comic book podcasts just to stay up on what's happening. I really only read 2-3 regularly. Last year I started X-Men from the very first issue. I'm up to #158 in the Claremont era.

@ras wowow! That is awesome -- I've been working my way through the back catalogue of Hellboy, but that isn't nearly as ambitious as the entire run of X-Men! Enjoy 🍻

@marco @ben you can loathe podcasts and of course have your opinions, but I really don't agree with your reasons. Marco says it will. This is life, I love tech bit usually watch the recap videos of keynotes. I LOVE podcasts, but occasionally there is a topic I'm not interested in and skip. I don't think this means you don't like something.

@kaa that would be fine episode to episode. But not within one episode.

@ismh above Facebook, below Google?

@marco this is exactly it. I put great effort into trying to write well enough to have people want to read every word. I work hard to make my work short enough that it is easy to consume. I don’t see that same effort in podcasting, and if it is being done, then I am stymied by the actual output. Solid point, thanks.

@adiabatic i just don’t agree with that premise at all.

@adiabatic thinking about it further, it’s like the difference between watching anything on Netflix, or watching Cable news all day. (If a bit of an extreme example) I’d rather they be Netflix, but they lean towards Cable news.

@vishae i think perhaps what people miss is that I would love to listen to podcasts, but not when they don’t seem to respect listeners. Thus I loathe them in the end. That help?

@devilgate that certainly was not a review of an app.

@ras at least they took 10 minutes to figure out a show structure.

@mdhughes so one way I think about this is a documentary (or docu-series perhaps?). Maybe I find the general topic interesting, but not all the finer points just some of them. It’s the editors job to make the show enjoyable throughout without causing people to want to skip around.

@adrianizq I have no problem with that approach, but what I hear from avid podcast listeners is that they skip more than they listen, which indicates a huge problem.

@ben I really don't think this holds up:

Isn’t the entire point of a podcast that the entire podcast is relevant and entertaining?

Surely being entertained is subjective, and you can't always make content that is 100% interesting to someone.

Also, what's wrong with skipping chapters? If I'm listening to a podcast, and a section isn't that interesting to me, I'll just skip that section out. It's not the podcasters fault that it doesn't appeal to me, and there's no detriment me at all.

@ChrisHannah to me it feels like this: micro.blog/ben/58313...

@ben interesting. I don't think that is the case with avid podcast listeners. But I only have a sample size of 1

@adrianizq I did talk to a lot of people, this isn’t just me talking out of my ass. And I agree. Avid podcast listeners (which are the minority) love things the way they are. But most podcast listneners are super annoyed with the current state. And drift away from indie podcasts for this reason.

@ben Or a reference book, with multiple chapters. In Mac Power Users, if they go off on some tool I'll never use, I can hit the chapter index. But the episode covers one whole topic, "Mac Maintenance Part 37: Trash Management" would be excessive editing.

@ras wait, which comic book review podcast is it? I’d like to listen to it.

@ben I still don't think it's a universal issue though. I'm sure in the majority of podcasts, there are people who will be 100% interested, and also some who are only interested in parts.

Also, I don't want podcasters to generalise, or even cut, sections that may not appeal to the entire audience. That would create a subpar experience for everyone.

@mdhughes i almost feel as though MPU has to be exempt, it’s not quite a podcast as much as it is a workshop.

@ChrisHannah my argument isn’t for that. My argument is that they take 15 minutes when it could be done in 5min. Generally speaking.

@ben I see. So the issue is about podcasts not "getting to the point"? Could this be due to most indie podcasts being conversation based, rather than strict topics?

@ben And to me that is part of the appeal for many podcasts. I’m not sure I would listen if it was 5 instead of 15. 🤷‍♂️

@marco @ben Just wanted to add one point about playback speed. It takes longer to create, and eloquently articulate a point than it does to consume and understand said point. That’s the primary reason (for me) that I play podcasts at ~2x speed. Listeners don’t need to be held back at creator speed when they can listen at consumption speed.

@ben you’ve been listening to the wrong podcasts then. On Margins is as tight a conversation as you can get. 1 hour long and no wastage. How I Built This is also tight. While Hello Internet does go long it’s always engaging. The Pen Addict lasts for 1hour and they have talking points throughout the show - if you have an interest in stationary it’s always over before you know it.....and the list goes on. Purge your list and start again :)

@ben No. Chapters are awesome. Life should have chapters.

@Carrington i have no issues with chapters. I have issues with the reliance on chapters because there’s too much other cruft to “skip over”.

@ben Sorry if someone's arleady mentioned this, but I like thinking of podcasts as listening in on interesting conversations about topics in which nobody around me is interested. Conversation is different from consuming information about something, and I think that looking at podcasts, especially the ones most tech enthusiasts follow, it's much more about talking about stuff than learning about it. Which might not be your cup of tea, but it also doesn't mean there's something wrong with the medium or how it's consumed, imho.