This is a time to pay close attention to everyone and everything. This is a time to carefully consider who and what you’re supporting.
Musk performed multiple Nazi salutes yesterday. Bezos is morally bankrupt. Both are billionaires who will burn down this country if it earns them another buck.
I’m done being quiet about people who pretend to care about IndieWeb principles. How do you reconcile wanting to own your own online identity while licking Musk’s boots *on his own platform*?
@adam I’m somehow not surprised that he spends time on that platform. I understand that some developers have to. But this just seems right on the nose.
People get mad at me when I post about things like this. Nobody likes to be reminded that they’re financially supporting someone who’s enthusiastic about fascism.
I don’t care any more. After what we collectively experienced yesterday, I won’t be quiet about it any longer.
And I think we all know where Vincent stands on one particular executive order that was just signed.
@adam Well, that’s disappointing to say the least! I’m a straight CIS white bloke and enquired about putting pronouns on my profile, whether it was me sticking my nose where it didn’t belong. I was reassured that it shows you’re an ally and is welcomed.
@adam Your outrage is misdirected. I wish everyone would stop tweeting too, but no good will come from personal attacks against people still on the platform, especially someone who has been working to make the open web better. Full disclosure: I also love rockets.
@adam This sort of virtue signalling nonsense is counterproductive. There's also absolutely no way shape or form that was a "Nazi salute". Keep the outrage baiting on other platforms.
@adam if it was a Nazi salute, that's awful, but watching it, it definitely wasn't done correctly if that is what it was to be. I'm not going to try to guess what it was, either. The dude will eventually say something about it, and then one could cast judgement if they feel they are truly worthy to judge.
@scattershot @adam Would love to see the mental gymnastics required to make you think that it was nowhere near a Nazi salute. Please, show your working
@manton If you think this is about rockets, I don’t think we’re ever gonna be able to have an intelligent discussion about this.
It’s not about rockets.
It’s not about pronouns.
Your stance here is tone deaf. Read the room. Read the *country*. Or the half of it that doesn’t want to live with Musk in any degree of control.
If you want to keep supporting this person, that’s your choice. But my feelings here are absolutely not misdirected in any way. I know exactly where I’m directing them.
@scattershot And keep the cluelessness that comes with this perspective on micro.blog, please. Makes it easier to block.
@tim I’m not going to conduct an analysis on the specifics of the motion. Anyone giving Musk the benefit of the doubt is either too naive or too sympathetic, and I have no tolerance for either.
@manton I have to say… Vincent’s involvement with micro.blog has made me consider cancelling my account more than once. The way his transphobic outburst was dealt with by him personally and then how it appears to be brushed over by micro.blog left an incredibly lingering bad taste in my mouth.
@adam No, you're taking a few tweets and completely blowing them up. My record on Twitter (quitting 14 years ago, writing a book about how to fix it) speaks for itself, so don't lecture me about Elon. You are making this a fight among people who should be on the same page! Nothing about your posts is punching up.
@DaveyCraney Sorry to hear it. He's a contractor and has done good work for us, but he also has his own business that has nothing to do with Micro.blog. I didn't mean to brush over anything.
@manton On the same page? Which page is that, the one where we’re supposed to turn a blind eye to bigotry? Vincent still hasn’t apologized for the terrible way he treated a trans woman. He only apologized for “saying the wrong thing” and then deleted that post. I’m never going to be on *that* page.
I’m not punching up. I’m punching bigotry and fascism in whatever direction I find it. And it’s right under your nose but you keep making excuses for it.
@adam Just wanted to make it clear that I love and appreciate that you are not quiet about things like this.
No surprise to see Manton defending him, acting outraged, and calling posts like this performative, when it's clear by his repeated actions that it is his supposed beliefs that are performative.
I've never been happier that I moved away from Micro.blog to omg.lol.
@Seadave There are two forms of allyship: the version that’s just hashtags and patting yourself on the back for supporting a concept, and the version where you actually *act* as an ally to others who need that support. Allyship without action is pointless.
If showing people that they’re supporting someone who harbors harmful attitudes towards marginalized groups is “cheap”, then fine, call me cheap. I think ignoring it is the far cheaper move, though.
@adam Let us all remember how important it is to the future of America that we all squabble amongst ourselves, strike out at every small perceived slight, and work as hard as we can to fight over scraps whilst ignoring all of the most important things... you know, like a criminal organization now in the White House. Attrition begins at home, after all.
@adam You've made this much more divisive and extreme than it really is. This is a big problem with social media — everyone piling on, amplifying disagreements until they are so terrible they are unrecognizable. I was gutted by the election. But calling someone a fascist over a few tweets...? Come on. Let's focus on where we can make a positive difference.
@chrispederick I really appreciate that. Manton’s responses to me today have completely missed the point (while simultaneously attempting to gaslight me into thinking that I’m on the wrong end of this equation).
Someone I know and trust said this about him early last year: “For all intents and purposes, Manton is the establishment as far as indieblogging goes now, so I guess he's acting like it.”
It tracks.
@Seadave I’m open to feedback on other ways to present it. But in the context of what our government here is doing to embolden people who want to literally remove trans people from existence, I’m kinda finished with quiet and polite ways of pointing fingers at people who harbor these disgusting views.
@adam I find it particularly instructive when someone immediately uses the standard conservative media playbook of missing the point, gaslighting the person they disagree with, acting outraged, and arguing that their previous actions on a completely separate issue should absolve them of any future criticism.
@tylerknowsnothing I’m having a hard time following your point, but I think you’re suggesting that I should reserve all of my criticism for elected officials? Yeah, no thanks. You can spend your energy how you wish, and I’ll spend mine criticizing elected officials *and* pointing out the rot in spaces and communities that I care about.
@adam @chrispederick I have a really really strong suspicion that everyone in this thread has a lot more in common than not. Would you all want to jump on a Zoom and talk more? Could be useful to have this conversation in a more productive way. I can arrange if ya'll are interested.
@manton You need to stop minimizing this and deflecting. If you can’t objectively see the problem with someone actively supporting Musk (even though he’s evil) and posting about that on X (even though it’s evil) while simultaneously taking money from people under the guise of “indieweb” principles, then *you* are the problem.
The conflict is obvious; you choose to ignore it. This *is* me trying to make a positive difference: by shining a light on the problem.
@adam Spot on, Adam... but not really. Not at all, TBH. I was being sarcastic. I thought you might get that, but it's clear I was wrong. You're tilting at windmills. One guy on Xitter who likes space science and tech is nothing to flip a lid over and isn't fighting fascism. Do go after the politicians and their civilian sycophants and the oligarchs and the kakistocracy, but expending as much energy as you have on this thread alone will ultimately go nowhere, and peeps are going to call you out on that. Sure, you'll get some support because it sounds like you're being strong and moral and right, but what's the end goal here? To shame one space nerd who still uses Xitter? Yeah. I don't think you're going to win democracy, so I'm suggesting you find another, more impactful hill to risk life and limb on. -Peace.
@mdalves If pointing out a problem in our collective community is falling into a trap, then fine, I’ll take one for the team and fall into the trap.
The alternative is silence, and silence is complicity.
We have these amazing web tools so that we can use our voices. I’m sorry, but I have difficulty trusting people who discourage that.
@tylerknowsnothing You obviously don’t know the entire history surrounding that one guy who likes space. There’s more to the story; I shared it earlier. Or if you do know the full story and are trying to minimize it anyway, then, yikes.
And fighting fascism is fighting any fascist that you encounter.
@manton @DaveyCraney I'm similarly conflicted about this too. It helps that he's only a contractor for small number of hours but given the team is so small, it does come off as...not right. I had suspected about his views for a while but that incident just made it clear. I agree with Adam that he hasn't apologized or indicated his views have changed. To each their own but then I tend to not associate myself with intolerant people at least until they are willing to change.
@manton This is why I won't look at my feeds anymore. This is growing pattern. People are on edge and looking for a fight, or jumping to conclusions. I just don't need that crap rent-free in my head.
I focus on what I can control and what I can do. Worrying about the rest does me no good.
I don't tend to use micro.blog as a feed. In general, I check certain profiles, post, and check replies and DMs.
@chrispederick @adam
Seconded, it's refreshing to see a platform leader who's not hemming and hawing and hiding behind obfuscations and circumlocutions.
@manton @adam It’s not “a few tweets,” Vincent has a history (transphobia, whining about being “canceled”) that Adam included a link to; and it’s not just rockets, he hit a SpaceX/Tesla/X trifecta of sidling up to Musk with no apparent discomfort.
If your pitch is “software for humans” but you’re comfortable in the Nazi bar and scare-quote pronouns, you absolutely should get called out on it.
@SimonWoods @seadave @manton even before that particular incident, he had once complained about having to skip past a screen on a Disney movie that said something like certain offensive parts have been removed so he quit the movie. I had asked, was it really that inconvenient to click 'ok'? He LOL-ed and said, he didn't want to be forced. Also, the next reaction was, perhaps he should stop writing his real thoughts as opposed to, maybe I'll reexamine my views. Also, we have to be cognizant of the fact that he hasn't yet written about what he really feels about trans people given the brouhaha.
@pratik @SimonWoods @seadave @manton I'm starting to feel uncomfortable about you all (negatively) discussing on my timeline a person who is / was / has been part of this community. Perhaps you'd all be better to continue the discussion via a different channel?
@pratik @simonwoods @manton +1. Good time to remember this quote:
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” ~Maya Angelou
@manton If anti-trans language (like Vincent's) and carrying water for fascists (like scattershot) is how things are going to be on micro.blog, then I'll be moving off of the platform. This is concrete harm to real people – this isn't theoretical. Both of these are things that wouldn't even be tolerated in our local elementary school.
@adam "just know that there’s no justification for trying to silence me when I exercise my right to talk about these things on the open web."
Do you see the hypocrisy, Adam?
@scattershot Um, no? Can you please point it out? Manton repeatedly tried to get me to stop talking abut Vincent Ritter earlier, and that’s what I was talking about there.
By the way, do you stand by your assertion from earlier that “there's absolutely no way shape or form that was a Nazi salute”? https://social.lol/@adam/113869570013921560
@adam I like this part: “I don’t care any more. After what we collectively experienced yesterday, I won’t be quiet about it any longer.”
It's basically your last name 😁
@scattershot OH! I see now. You were referring to me suggesting that you keep your cluelessness elsewhere. Yeah, that’s not the same thing as trying to silence someone. But, hey, you tried.
And even if you did catch me in a moment of hypocrisy, I’d rather be a hypocrite than a Nazi sympathizer any day. But you do you.
