Steve Troughton-Smith on Mastodon:
If Apple isn’t stopped, there will come a point where Apple slaps a 30% tax on all VISA transactions made on iOS (unless you use Apple Pay, of course!)
It could happen. Related, I’d love the option to use Apple Pay in iOS apps instead of in-app purchase. Apple would still skim off their small fee as part of the card transaction, but it wouldn’t hit developer revenue.
@pixelscience @manton It’s in reference to this:
https://news.patreon.com/articles/understanding-apple-requirements-for-patreon
@callionica @manton Oh! Interesting. When did Patreon add in-app purchases to their iOS app?
I ask, because I swear it was not in the app when I subscribed to some creators back a couple years ago.
@pixelscience @manton Article from Dec 2023 describes Apple’s strong arming and a schedule for implementation.
https://news.patreon.com/articles/an-update-on-commerce-purchases-in-the-ios-app
@manton not a chance. Payment processors are way more influential than Apple is when it comes to payments. Goldman is losing their shirt on the deal with Apple and other banks are laughing at them, so nobody will line up to take over Apple Card unless Apple becomes a bank or gives concessions. And in order for them to become a bank they will either have to build out their own interchange (very difficult and expensive) or play ball with Visas of the payments world.
@valera Yeah, I don't think he was being completely serious, but more that this is where the path ultimately leads. It wouldn't be a 30% cut on the actual card transaction. It would be invoicing the developer for 30% later, which is effectively what they're doing with the new linking tax in the EU.
@callionica @manton Looks like App Review “done fucked up”. App Review shouldn’t have allowed an update to the Patreon app into the store that added In-App purchases that fall outside their own rules.
The Patron blog post would seem reasonable if it wasn’t targeting Apple.
Google Play has the exact same rule. “Apps using an alternative in-app billing system will need to remove it in order to comply with the Payments policy.”
The difference might be the link-out rules
https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/10281818?hl=en
@pixelscience @manton This doesn’t smell like app review to me. Feels more like a deal done at the executive level.
Apple shouldn’t be taxing users 30% on these transactions.
@callionica @manton You said “users”. I am certain you meant app publishers.
It’s a shame Patreon makes so much money they fall into Apple’s 30% licensing tier.
@pixelscience @manton Patreon loses no money on an individual transaction following this change.
In general, the Apple tax raises prices or reduces service levels and those costs are borne by consumers.
@callionica @manton People are choosing to frame this as “Apple vs Creators” instead of “Patreon vs their contract”. I don’t blame them.
But don’t fool yourself. At any time Patreon choose to live up to their contract terms and keep prices the same for end users by either pay their contractual licensing fees or removing third party IAP from their app.
@pixelscience @manton I think you know from previous discussions that I consider Apple’s fees to be a measure of their power, not their contribution. Patreon is a middle man, just like Apple. I’m more concerned with the active parties to the transaction and the effect on them (and wider society) of Apple siphoning money from the ecosystem.
@callionica @manton I know we disagree on this. Apple spends money making a lotPatreonmeworks. Many of them bring value to software made for Apple platforms.
Sometimes they even get updated! 😀 And sometimes those updates are genuine improvements!!
I wonder why Patreon even has an iOS app at all. It doesn’t feel like a good fit.
I guess someone did the math and thought that iOS notifications were a better “engagement platform” than email.
@pixelscience @manton It’s possible they tested web and noticed that Apple has crippled it with ITP and various bugs which means forced log outs and total loss of locally stored user data at frequent intervals. Who knows? I agree that they should ditch the iOS app and move to web though.
Providing an OS is not free as you say. Purchasers of iPhones have paid for it many times over though. Apple is charging consumers twice for the OS.
@pixelscience @manton Did you see the TechCrunch article? It says
“Apple has threatened to remove creator platform Patreon from the App Store if creators use unsupported third-party billing options or disable transactions on iOS”
People are reacting to the “or disable transactions” part
