Thinking about the Tesla Superchargers that have been torched recently… Anyone who uses violence or property destruction to further their cause is actually undermining it. We’ve gotta be better than that.
Protests like the marches a couple weeks ago are the model. Peaceful, legal, effective.
@manton I’m not convinced that is true in all situations. Many people would say the Boston Tea Party was justified property destruction, for example. Tricky to figure out when it’s justified, though.
@ffmike I’m mostly thinking in 2025 and recent history for this. That’s an interesting example, though!
@manton peaceful protests don’t go very far when the president is blatantly breaking laws and desecrating the constitution on a daily basis. I don’t think waving around a few cleverly worded cardboard signs will change anything at this point but that’s just my two cents. I mean shit, before too long they’ll probably start deporting protestors to the concentration camps in El Salvador too.
@grubz I hear you and perhaps I’m resigned to little progress until the midterms, but I do think the protests matter. Gonna take lots of small things (and hopefully the courts). But we can still draw a line at vandalism and violence which just hurt more people.
@manton None of the political violence from the past few years has been at all justifiable. Most of it was unhinged people without the facts looking for an excuse whether Portland’s courthouse, Jan 6, Luigi… the list goes on.
In the case of Tesla, it is the far left largely victimizing other progressives who were just trying to buy green cars. Now with very hard to put out battery fires pluming all kinds of toxic chemicals into the air, and infrastructure that all electric cars need getting destroyed.
Pointless destruction we should not romanticize or make excuses for.
@manton This is the classic white liberal fantasy—that simply asking for the fascists to stop beating you will work. Nelson Mandela endorsed violent resistance to apartheid. Property violence is the stick that makes the carrot of caving to non-violent protest palatable to those in power.
@manton It sometimes takes a mix of both. The WTO riots in Seattle were certainly effective. Ferguson saw some restructuring of their city government with folks more representative of the community getting elected in, after the BLM protests brought light to the situation.
@manton I agree for our present moment at least. People could protest those chargers with street art or, if that’s prosecuted too harshly, good old posters as well as chalk statements on the pavement.
@manton @grubz violence you are also inevitably hurting people with the same opinions as you and would stand with you at a protest, but you’ve gone and targeted someone based on a brand they chose to purchase prior to all this occurring in the first place. So then you lost that potential supporter to your cause due to the struggles, stress and pressure you have put onto their lives due to your stupidity and hatred.
You’re attacking your own people, who you need to stand with you, not against you.
@manton I disagree. There is real material violence being enacted by those in power, a reciprocal response is expected.
There is no progress or change, without impedance, disruption, or pain enacted upon the oppressor.