Comp Sci Question: how much UML are you guys using in day to day work?
this question comes from my son complaining about yet another UML assignment. i went and counted, about 20-30% of my kids’ university comp-sci has had some UML assignments.
i have not had UML come up in any professional capacity myself. and i think my education was before it was popular, so i’m just a bit surprised at how much emphasis its being given.
@isaiah in 25 years I’ve seen probably 3 total UML diagrams and none of them were of any use. Worst type of diagram to convey information. Just awful.
@isaiah Specifically UML? Never.
I use Visio-esque diagrams regularly and seen some shade of it at most tech companies I've been at, but it's all "text in rectangles with arrows" and not the Unified Markup Language.
That said, I would guess that there are sub-industries (aerospace, military, finance) that are more dependent on it.
@isaiah it was occasionally useful at Apple as we were building out complex features and needed proper sequence diagrams for how communication between components was supposed to work.
So its usefulness is non-zero, but it’s still extremely low.
@isaiah UML was really big at consluting I did from maybe '02-10? But it was falling off at the end, I haven't even heard of it since then.
It's fine as a design up front method for databases and big projects, the timelines esp are useful when making wire protocols.
But almost anything you'd actually make if you're not 10,000 person enterprise company? Nope.
@cheesemaker also: thx for posting that paul simon cold open link last night. holy moly that was so good. :-) i totally would have missed it otherwise.
@cheesemaker I could have used it on a big project that I was part of years ago, but the only software available for the Macintosh was too expensive to ever get in the door (several hundred dollars per seat before we’d even had a chance to try it out). We had tens of developers spread across the province – could’ve been great.
@isaiah it totally gave me the feels. Glad you loved it as well. Need more good things these days. ❤️
@isaiah very little - the most useful bit are structure diagrams & sequence diagrams. those are actually quite good at communicating designs & function.
something like plantuml or mermaid embedded in markdown can be super handy, if your wiki or repo hosting software support them.
@isaiah I've UML authoring tools used for sketching, but for quick, informal communication. Never been required use any precise detail in UML
@isaiah As someone who finds visual thinking helpful, I like the idea of modeling. But the way UML was taught and used at my university was totally flawed.
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@isaiah I’m a fan of Agile Modeling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj4bVFlsGzc), which to me boils down to this:
- Put effort into modeling and keeping models up to date where it makes sense, like database schemas, high-level architecture, or complex workflows.
- Make throwaway diagrams when it helps during development. Quick sketches, whiteboard stuff. Or don’t, if you’d rather just write code.
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@isaiah I was really into learning UML back then. I still draw UML diagrams from time to time, but it’s more about thinking on paper than producing artifacts for the sake of it.
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@lukaskubanek i’m a big fan of thinking on paper. and documenting the evolution/realization of an idea.
for curiosity’s sake…
i’m curious what you say job is? what platform/language do you use?
and do you write hobby code in your own time? do you do uml for that too?
