Expecting More and Getting Disappointed You Got Nothing pratik.micro.blog
@pratik I think you are discounting the fact that the republicans offered a lot of things democrats liked, so they stayed out instead of voting for party. Otherwise it’s hard to explain where the billion dollars went in campaign if it was not directed to turnout. I mean her ground operation was off the charts in key states.
@pratik curbing trans rights, curbing migration, harder on crime in cities, and inflation. The last one though democrats did well but were slow to it.
@pratik and oh, DEI. Great idea and much necessary but all it did in 2021 in big companies likes ours and tech industry is create a class system where mostly whites and Asian “men” were overlooked for promotions in favor of women and black folks. Don’t underestimate the impact of those things on voting bloc.
@stupendousman So wait, you think Dems should no longer support trans rights, immigrants, and try to go hard on non-existent crime? Also, DEI? You think whites and Asian “men” were overlooked for promotions in favor of women and black folks and Dems should fight that?
@pratik democrats need to figure out which issue hurts them the least and will cost them the least votes and drop them. I mean they already did make a calculated decision to drop Palestine issue this election. Regarding DEI it became a fad few years back I don’t think it got the result it intended to and just drove men in particular even more away. I personally think dems should fight for ALL of this but hey I also know now they won’t win elections with that. (Part of me is also convinced that democrats want all things republicans want except they don’t want the tag of being a republican so they are happy to have republicans do all the shit they wanted to but don’t want the guilt of saying they do).
@stupendousman This may need to be a topic on our next group Zoom 😊 coz I disagree. By Democrats, do you mean the Democratic voters or the Democratic Party?
@stupendousman But not in the last line within the parenthesis, right? There it seems like you mean Democratic voters.
@stupendousman Is the objective only to win, even if it means abandoning the issues that brought people to your party? In fact, Dems moved more left on the Palestine issue than they have before but just not left enough for those complaining. Should the Democratic Party abandon trans people and undocumented immigrants and be more police-friendly? Even if they do, they will never be as "rightwing" as Republicans, so people would eventually vote Republican anyway, and now you have also lost the people who were okay with empathetic but slow reform.
I'm sure after Nixon won the election in 1968 and then won again in 1972 (with 49 states) in 1972, there must have been people who asked Dems to abandon civil rights and immigration. We wouldn't have been in this country if they had.
@pratik
Is the objective only to win, even if it means abandoning the issues that brought people to your party?
Yes for me. You can only govern if you win. And if you win, you can do more good than doing nothing by losing. Smaller incremental wins are way more worth it than trying for a big bang even though we'd all like the latter to be true. Sadly the world is drastically different now than 1972 when a decorum existed in politics and life. Now it doesnt so the same rules just dont apply anymore unfortunately.
@pratik also accept the fact the the issues that are bringing people to Democratic Party are actually “white” issues. Almost every non white group is conservative in their beliefs and the issues that democrats keep pushing like abortion, trans rights etc are not the top of mind issues for non white groups. Heck even non white groups are racist and anti immigrants towards their own kind as this election handily proves. I mentioned this few days ago democrats have an identity problem - who exactly are they fighting for?
@stupendousman This may be a philosophical difference ("ends justify the means") but also doesn't work practically
You can only govern if you win. And if you win, you can do more good than doing nothing by losing.
How will you do any good if you won by abandoning the issues? I mean, politically, how does that even work? You do a bait-and-switch? Make all undocumented citizens after you had promised to deport them? It may work once. Then what?
With the issues you mentioned, there is no halfway, and the extreme position is co-opted by the Republicans. E.g., "mass deportation for all illegal immigrants." What stand can Dems take on this issue to offer a choice?
@pratik I think this is a good convo for zoom call haha. But yeah its a tough spot for democrats to be in presently! No easy solutions out unlike the other side.
@stupendousman Yup. Having a nuanced stand is always more difficult than having an absolutist one. Also, much easier to maintain unity if you exclude groups of people. So it's always gonna be choosing between inclusive vs. exclusive.
@stupendousman BTW, this debate is also raging among the Dem influencers. Jon Favreau is making your arguments but I am closer to Greg Sargent's arguments.
PS. Both are Bluesky links.
@pratik sometimes when there is just so much information and differing opinions all around I like to put my PM hat on and go back to ask - what is the most simplest explanation that can explain the outcome we are seeing? The answer I keep coming back to is Harris was just not that liked at all. Period. She didn’t connect in 2020, she largely was viewed as a DEI pick (hate the word but there it is!) in favor of other qualified candidates, didn’t do herself any favors in the last 3 years by being out of news, and then was thrust into an impossible situation. That’s just really it - she was never the choice of democrats any time in last 4 years.
@pratik to be clear I am not blaming Harris for any of this. If anything I blame Biden. He probably saw through this at midterms and knew that he probably stood a better chance than her. He should have known his health better though but I am positive he saw though it and that’s why insisted on being in race.