Micro Monday is a day to find new people to follow. We do occasional roll calls to gather up folks with a common interest. Today’s topic: electric vehicles. Drive one? Want one? Got advice to share? Leave a comment here so fellow enthusiasts can follow you (at a safe distance). 🚗

@monday we’d love to go all electric but are concerned about long distance travel and whether the infrastructure is there yet. Anyone have thoughts on that?

@monday We are very interested in the Cadillac Lyriq and are on the verge of putting down a deposit. Anyone have one? Anyone driven one?

@monday I drive one (Tesla Model Y). I'm also generally interested in the transition to EVs and the development of public charger networks. I'd like my next EV to not be Tesla, but today they still seem to be the leader in some regards.

@mbkriegh I've done a number of long distance trips in my Tesla. It's been pretty enjoyable and I haven't had any major issues. It does require a little more planning and you are at the mercy of whatever charging network your car supports. Trips take longer, but how much longer depends on a lot of factors. General rule of thumb for my car is it's about 1 hour of charging time per 8 hours of drive time.

If you want a much more in-depth look, I'd recommend checking out Out of Spec on youtube: www.youtube.com/@OutofSpe.

I also found this video by MKBHD to be an interesting look at road triping with an EV: www.youtube.com/watch

@monday I had too many thoughts (or really I am just being long-winded), so I created a blurb on this: robertlominack.micro.blog/2023/01/2...

@dfj thanks for the info! Will have a look.

@mbkriegh The infrastructure seems to be getting there but there are definitely some hurdles. Lately, there have been issues with non-Tesla station reliability. But I am hopeful that this will be a short-term problem.

@RobertLominack thanks! The lease on our current car is up in a year and a half. I imagine the infrastructure will continue to improve.

@dfj and @mbkriegh I second the Out of Spec recommendation. "In-depth" doesn't quite capture how far down rabbit holes they venture, but I love it and have learned a lot. I also agree that the Tesla road-tripping experience is pretty simple.

@monday

I'm more interested in electric mass transit, eletric rail, electric bikes, and electric last-mile (like scooters).

But yes. :D

@mbkriegh The thing that’s on the horizon is Tesla opening up their charger US network to all cars that support CCS fast charging (which is most current EVs). This could be a game changer, but it’s too early to tell.

The public charger networks have changed a lot in the past few years. But demand for them has also increased so it’s surfaced problems that may have gone unnoticed previously.

@RobertLominack @mbkriegh

Haha, yes Out of Spec is definitely a rabbit hole, but one that I’ve enjoyed immensely. I really appreciate his videos in Europe to have an idea of what it’s like in places that are ahead in the EV transition compared to the US.

@monday We have one EV (a Kia EV6 that I got this past summer) and one traditional gasoline-engine car. The EV is our main around-town wheels at this point and it's fantastic. Charging infrastructure is not quite to the point yet in New England to support long roadtrips, so that's the only real use the gasoline car gets these days.

@monday very curious to hear from owners. I’m tempted by the current combo of price + tax credit + current car value on the Chevy Bolt, but I’m making myself wait for better local infrastructure and maybe better CarPlay in a few years?

@monday Want one! I’m waffling between leasing a hybrid for now, or running my current car a little further into the ground for a few more years and then going all-electric.

@monday @oddevan We bought a Chevy Bolt EUV late last year and absolutely love it. It's especially great when dealing with traffic or stop-and-go lines like picking the kid up from school. We've only done a couple longer trips (250~ish miles) with it and, while you do have to plan ahead with charging stations, it made the trips without issue.

@dfj Yep, I totally agree. Just watched him driving a very expensive Porsche all over Germany.

@monday We've been driving an VW iD3 for a couple of years now. I should and maybe will write a longer post about it, but long story short could never go back to non electric. Lack of supply and high prices have been holding back uptake a little in Europe, but both are going to change for the better in 2023 There will be lots of Chinese entrants on to the market and prices will fall. Tesla knows this and has tried to get ahead of the market by reducing prices a lot a week ago.

All my driving so far has been done within Ireland and have had no range issues/problems with charging (touch wood) so far. And I'd have no hesitation in taking in on a long road trip most places in Europe. The Ionity network on its own is pretty good and there are lots more alternatives arriving on the market.

I'd much prefer though if the grants that Governments are giving towards purchasing new electric cars went on improving cycling networks within cities and small electric buses making connections between smaller towns and rural areas.

All in all, the transition is going to happen faster than most people realise.

@monday I have an electric bike. Fairly keen to get an electric car once we have some funds available.

@monday I don’t delight one bit in being a contrarian here, but as an environmental (atmosphere, air quality) scientist I’m really concerned about the “full cost” accounting for current e-vehicles. Batteries are OK now; they will be really good in 10 years. But now I’m worried in 100,000 km these current vehicles will have really bad battery storage (like you phone in a couple years it can only handle 80% of charge when new or less). I’m suggesting for now we should be considering more diesels, not less. They are greener in the sense having a 300,000+ km lifetime they will get more use before going to the landfill. Modern diesels release much less CO2 then gas engines (remember e-vehicles don’t release no CO2, they just do it at the power generation end) and with more particulate filters they run very clean (certainly clean enough to be sold in places like California). Bottom line: e-vehicles are great but except in particular use cases (e.g. commuting) it might be best to hold off, at least until solid state batteries become the norm. 🚗

@wfm I rode the rails for 6.5 hours today. I watched 14 different electric scooters disembark on five different platforms. That would not have happened pre-COVID. It's accelerating on my university campus with hallways double-jobbing as charging bays.

@monday I have an electric bike for commuting. As soon as we move back into the city the pickup will disappear and be replaced with an electric car.

@topgold I have very mixed feelings on the scooters. I was almost taken out by one travelling at high speed in the wrong direction in a bike lane and have seen more than one almost fatal near misses by scooters running red lights at night and ofc no lights.

@monday I certinly want one. I hear they’re amazing to drive. I haven’t done any research but I hear some of the brands from Kia and Haundai are worth considering.

@wfm our local gurriers often run opposite direction in cycle lanes. On foggy evenings like tonight, it would be easy for me to hit one head-on with my car at an intersection.

@lmika we have arranged to borrow two showroom EVs for weekend range trials. Worth doing if you don't mind foraging in some places.

@gregmoore @jarrod @oddevan @monday Same here (Bolt EUV last August)! Mostly used for running errands around town, commuting to work occasionally. Love never thinking about gas. Just plug in when I get home, and never think about it day-to-day. (Longer trips are still a challenge though.)

@topgold yep. Also..forecasting increased Googling by the wider micro.blog community wondering what a gurrier is😀

@monday For all things electric, I recommend the Fully Charged Show

@brentajones thanks for the info! I think the biggest damper on my buzz is that our house has ZERO outdoor outlets at the moment. So we’re taking a really freaking long charging cord I guess?? 😅

@oddevan Chevy provides a credit to get a capable 240V outlet installed (it covered our total cost). We chose to install it in the garage, but the cord that came with the car reaches if I park it in the driveway.

@monday we picked up a Nissan Leaf at the beginning of last year as fuel prices were beginning to rise.

Have to be careful/planned with range on longer trips, with range at 2- 2.5h on the motorway. Love the automatic transmission, and it has largely been paying for itself on fuel savings against our L200s.

Pop it in cruise with distance maintenance, and ride with the wagons.

@monday my wife wants a hybrid while the rest of the family wants a full EV. With a hybrid you have to carry around the extra weight of a battery array and you're limited to local travel under electric power.

@monday I’ve been a happy EV driver for a year now. I’ve done two family holidays and a couple of long distance trips. No going back to dinosaur juice for me.

@bobiverse This is interesting. I do think that in the US, at least, car manufactures are incentivized to produce EVs but they don’t have to plan a long term solution for the batteries they manufacture or install in cars. I do wonder if that should be a stipulation to qualify for government incentives: some way to recycle or make sure the used battery does not end up in a landfill or otherwise polluting.

@dfj That's a good idea, that we "do the math", because currently I worry in 10 years the landfills are going to full of some very hard to dispose of batteries.

@monday electric vehicles… so his means an ebike counts 😉

For the past threee years have ridden the Karmic Koben S. Lovely, but heavy ride. But, it replaced my auto for the local bits. And aside from its current issue (it doesn’t turn on), has been a reasonable vehicle.

I do think e-bikes are a solid option for some folks. But, like electric autos, they need to be lighter. Mine is in the 55-60lb range. Which works when it gets up to speed, but not so for carrying. I think 30-40lbs is a sweet spot. And at such a weight unlocks things for many folks.

Way more on that topic. But yea, in terms of EVs, I think local and reasonable pace is where EVs excel (max 10-15mi from home if you will). To that end, the ebike is a solid chap.

Now, if we’re talked electric autos, would love see more classic autos switched to electric. Half-wondering if I’d go to the classic Mini with the BMW i3’s dual setup as an ideal one for more highway needs.

@monday I’d love to. Biggest concern is Ive read the battery life is ~8 years? I tend to hold on to a car for longer.

@monday sort of related - Apple TV has a show that features Ewan McGregor traveling from South to North America in a Rivian.

@monday love the simplicity of electric vehicles, but I definitely think there are issues that need to be solved.

@Michele Yes, Long Way Up! I enjoyed this show. They are riding prototype electric Harley motorcycles too!

@monday For those who are hesitant to go full EV, after four years with a Honda Clarity Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle I can recommend PHEV's as a "gateway drug". All the loveliness of an EV when you are commuting to and from work, but the ability to stop at a gas station on a long trip.

@dfj Loved this (and the previous shows with them), but found it incredible what they had to do to make the trip possible on electric vehicles. Setting up charging stations in the middle of nowhere, for thousands of miles? That wouldn’t happen for anyone else 😇

@Ddanielson @monday Agreed with all of this, we need a better solution than swapping one vehicle type for another. Yes, the emissions are fixed for the vehicles themselves, but not for the processes to mine lithium and build them. And at the end of the day, vehicles are just one piece of the emissions puzzle; there are many other factors. As climate change worsens and global permafrosts begin to melt, they’re releasing methane which is extremely more potent a greenhouse gas than CO₂ will ever be. Stopping the feedback loop is what’s required at this point, or it’s game over.

None of this factors in the prohibitive cost of EVs, which means people will continue buying ICE cars. I’d love to get one, but cost and lack of infrastructure make it a dealbreaker. I agree with making cities pedestrian, bike, and mass transit friendly so we can ditch cars entirely.

@pimoore @Ddanielson @monday interesting. It hadn't occurred to me about the weight of the batteries being such an issue for safety, road wear and tear and tyre noise. My local area government is currently consulting on its air quality strategy. One of its primary goals is replacing ICE with low emission vehicles. Acknowledgment of brake and tyre wear emissions, but not of additional grid use, or inequity in who can afford to buy them.

@davidmarsden @ddanielson @monday Exactly this, which is why Dave’s point about them not being a panacea is spot on. We need a complete overhaul to our current way of life, not just a bandaid.

@maique So true! There was a lot of “TV magic” happening there, I think. The bikes, I can believe they charged from random outlets in houses and hotels. But the cars would need charging infrastructure to be usable every day, for sure!

@Ddanielson I totally agree with this. I live in Atlanta and it’s a problem that the city is so car centric, for many reasons beyond climate impact. I have noticed an increase in e-bike and scooter use here. This helps some but it won’t be enough of a positive impact.

I hope we can see real systemic change, beyond the consumer choice level.

@dfj They charged the trucks by being pulled with huge trucks. And they had a company install dozens of charging stations all over the continent! Being a star definitely has some perks.

@maique Wait, you mean it’s not normal to have a charging infrastructure team dedicated to you? Huh

@dfj I mean… for me, personally, of course. But I’m aware I live a very privileged life, and not everyone has the same kind of support team 🤣🤣🤣

@monday I'm a little late to this but I'd say... e-Bikes or any other form of electric micromobility. Which is to say, as small as possible. Better to move 180 to 400lbs of human with smaller vehicles appropriate to the job. With the resources to build car-truck-shaped EV hundreds of e-bikes can be built. So, it's more efficient to manufacture and then of course maintain and use. Oh, and park, house, and the pavement too. Just, in general, I hope that we can sort out a long term path forward that favors smaller, micro form factors.

@monday as our daily commute is roughly 20km one way on mostly countryside roads the EV have been the perfect choice for us since 2015.

@monday ended up buying an electric car

@Munish Congrats! What kind?

@leeS thanks. Ended up getting an Enyaq. Which I really enjoy driving munish.micro.blog/2023/06/1...

@Munish Nice! You have access to a lot more variety of vehicles than I do.

@leeS where are you based in the world ?

@Munish Santa Monica, California. Teslas are plentiful here. And we're seeing more plug in VWs and Audi's and Volvos.

@leeS I test drove the Tesla Model Y. Sister in law got that one, was not for me. I also test drive the Vw, Audi and Škoda. All the same platform and the Škoda was the better one for me. Mercedes was a nice one too. Other brands are plentiful here. Hyundai, Kia, Volvo, Ford etc. Ford March E was nice too.

@Munish It's great that you have so many choices there!🚗🚙⚡️