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paulrobertlloyd
paulrobertlloyd

Disgraceful hosts, but a delightful final. Congratulations Argentina!

ridwan
ridwan

@paulrobertlloyd What do you mean by disgraceful hosts?

paulrobertlloyd
paulrobertlloyd

@ridwan Qatar. Bribery during the bid; inhumane treatment of migrant workers; a ‘sustainable’ tournament that involved building 6 new stadiums to host 4 weeks of football… sports washing at its finest.

ridwan
ridwan

@paulrobertlloyd Alright! Would you say the same thing about US? How about Russia? Do you think England has got the moral high ground? Have you heard of Colonialism? Why selective outrage when it comes to Muslims or Muslim country?

ridwan
ridwan

@paulrobertlloyd Just FYI, US is hosting the next World Cup. Can we get a similar outrage on their human rights record please?

paulrobertlloyd
paulrobertlloyd

@ridwan I’m aware of this argument, and it’s a compelling one.

There’s undoubtedly aspects of islamophobia and western moral superiority in the media’s coverage. Does it make any of this right? No! I guess the difference here is that 1000s of migrant workers died as a direct consequence of Qatar holding this tournament, but it shouldn’t matter how a state curtails human rights.

FWIW, I wasn’t a fan of the last World Cup being hosted in Russia just 2 years after the annexation of Crimea or, from a climate aspect, UEFA holding the last Euros over an entire continent (one of the few positives that can be said of this World Cup was that fans didn’t need to fly between the different venues). I’ve also heard it mentioned that the crowds were more diverse in Qatar.

The world’s complicated! Thanks for challenging me on this.

(I respected Gary Neville not shying away from his relationships with people in the Middle East. It was refreshing.)

ridwan
ridwan

@paulrobertlloyd Thanks for the reply. But when you disrespect an entire Nation as "disgraceful hosts", I think that comes from an innate "superiority paradigm" that we in the West have been indoctrinated.

When you talk about human rights, How about the human rights abuses in the name of colonialism by European powers, i.e. Britain & France? How about Apartheid in South Africa? Let's talk about the human rights violations of the Japanese Internment Camps in the USA? Why not talk about the millions of children killed in Afghanistan & Iraq? How about American Imperialism in Latin American countries? Why are these not talked about? Why were the cries of Palestinians ignored? I can go on and on! I do not deny the deaths of migrant workers in Qatar. It needs to be talked about! But why this selective outrage? Where were the good people in the West when human rights were violated by their Western powers? Some honest people did stand up, but unfortunately, the majority didn't and accepted what they were been told.

The next hosts of the World Cup in the US ... Are they "disgraceful hosts"? If not, then I would like to know why not? Do you think they have got a perfect human right record? Do you think we, in the UK, have got a perfect human right record? We have been involved in a war or some sort of conflict for the past 100 years.

The world is complicated, I totally agree, and if you are open and interested, I would like to share my paradigm through these two YouTube channels. Smile2Jannah & OnePath Network.

Even if you are not interested in that, I would like you to watch these two short (approx. 5 min) videos to understand where I'm coming from:

Thanks again for taking the time to read this. Much appreciated.

paulrobertlloyd
paulrobertlloyd

@ridwan Thanks for sharing those videos, and apologies if you were offended by my comment. I don’t disagree with much of what you’ve said here. There’s only so much one can be outraged by, and its easy to have your focus drawn to what’s being discussed in the media.

It can also be difficult to find equivalences between what is happening today, in our own lifetimes, and events that happened decades or even centuries ago. I won’t stand up for colonialism, but does that mean being silent about injustices happening today? We are affected by, and can only engage with, the world as we experience it.

Anyway, it’s good to have a light shone onto my unconscious biases, so thanks again.

In reply to
ridwan
ridwan

@paulrobertlloyd What frustrates me is when it comes to Muslims, the entire Muslim population is blamed and our religion is in under attack by the Western media and governments. But, when a white man kills Muslims or any others for that matter, then he is a lonewolf, angelic, have mental health issues etc etc. Why the double standards?

I agree that we need to standup for injustices happening today. And, I can show double standards, hyprocisy, bigotary when it comes to Muslims and Muslim countries too.

I understand your sentiments but as a Muslim and a brown man, it is not new to me to see my religion, my race and Muslims as a whole blamed and the hyprocisy of the West is ever talked about. Selective Outrage frustrates me and I thought I will enquire and why is the case?

Sorry I might have been bit harsh. Words are powerful and when it ridicules one Nation but doesn't use a similar tone to rest of the world (i.e. Western Liberal Democracies) then I think that needs to be made aware.

Thanks for watching the videos. Much appreciated. Hope I see a similar tone when US hosts the next World Cup. 😉 👍

pratik
pratik

@ridwan @paulrobertlloyd Thanks for this discussion. It's heartening to see people disagree and then see each other's POV. I had been a bit reserved in my criticism of Qatar too, and Ridwan's reply made it clear (to me) why. Also, considering so many Indian migrants died building the stadiums, but I have not heard a peep from the Indian government or Indians. It shows the complex nature of relationships.

ridwan
ridwan

@pratik It doesn’t matter if the dead migrants are Indians or not. Human lives should transcend nationalities, whether Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Filipinas, Arabs etc. I grew up in Abu Dhabi, and I know how dire the situation is for construction workers over in the Gulf. And I do not deny that at all.

My gripe is with the selective outrage, bigotry, hypocrisy, racism, and Islamophobia of the Western Media and what is happening in the Motherland of India with the BJP and Hindutva mobs. I’m tired of these double standards, mate. I grew up in a post-9/11 world, and I know how it feels to be treated like “the other” wherever I go. So maybe it is all these things!

I see good people squabbling without realising the macro-influences and manipulations we are subjected to subconsciously. As I previously mentioned, Words are powerful, and we must be mindful of their power to make or break things.

Thanks again for understanding. @paulrobertlloyd

pratik
pratik

@ridwan @paulrobertlloyd I get it. And I can't even imagine how difficult it has been for the average Muslim over the last two decades.