If you were buying a new car for a family today, what would you buy? EV preferred.

(Please don’t say “public transit”. Yes, I’d prefer functional public infrastructure too, and resent the need to own a car, but I live in America.)

@ben A used Chevy Bolt with a battery that had recently been replaced. A friend of mine got one for fairly cheap.

@ben Do you plan to frequently take it on road trips or will your driving mostly be local?

@ben I would buy the best plugin hybrid on the market likely one of these https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g26286098/best-hybrid-cars/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=dda_ga_cd_md_bm_prog_org_us_g26286098&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5oG-362_hQMV80tHAR2mNA0WEAAYASAAEgL7qvD_BwE

@ben an old Honda Insight

@ben I’ve driven i3’s since 2015, but they’ve stopped producing them. If I had to buy now, probably an EV Mustang.

@kevincianfarini @ben this is what I drive. 2017 Bolt. It's great for city trips and the nearby region (w/in 2 hours, say), but it's hard for longer-distance intercity trips. Max charge rate is 50kW, so it takes an hour plus to top up. You have to time your charges to match up with a meal break or overnight stop.

@ben if it's the only car you're going to have, I'd buy a plugin hybrid.
EV for all the local trips and usable on longer trips.

@ben Hyundai Ioniq for me (I'm single).

@kevincianfarini @ben all that said, it's a wonderful car. We get about 400km range in summer, 300 or less in the coldest part of winter.

@kevincianfarini @ben for Ben, I'm 6'2" and I can fit pretty comfortably in the car, but the low ground clearance means I really have to dip to get through the door into the driver's seat.

@ben we looked for an EV for our family last October (3 kids between age 9 and 13) but ended up with a Sienna Hybrid which we are very happy with

@kevincianfarini @ben if I were shopping for an electric car today, I'd try the Ioniq and the Polestar. My sister-in-law has the Polestar 2 and charges up in 15 minutes. Very jealous!

@ben I bought a Subaru Solterra in Feb 2023 and love it. (I need all-wheel drive where I live, with harsh winters.) But due to the range, it is best for daily driving & not long distances (at all). I love everything about driving an EV, but I really wish the drive range was longer. I wish the technology would catch up, and we could get 400 miles+ from one charge.
So, whatever you get, I recommend something with as long a range as possible. Range & the tire prices are the only negatives.

@ben ioniq 5

@evan @ben When I originally bought my ID4 I over indexed on how much I would need to fast charging (125kW). I use fast charging maybe once per year.

@ben

I would buy a Tesla Model Y, the best selling car in the world last year for a reason. The Tesla charging network makes road trips anxiety free. The Chevy Bolt is fine for daily commuting but too compromised in design for a road trip (50Kw max charge rate on the CCS network). Just hold you nose about Elon. Buying any car that uses gasoline is is just making life even more difficult for the generations coming behind us that have to deal with the climate emergency.

@ben VW id.3 was the sweet spot last I looked into it (not sure it's available in the US though)

@ben VW ID.3 or ID.4.

@ben If it was a family car I’d wait for the Rivian R2 to come out.

I’m actually going to be in the market in the next few years. But I need something for hauling an ultra-light trailer and various loads. So I’m probably going to get a Ford Maverick. Though I’m waiting to see if the R2 or R3 will have towing options and what their max loads are.

@ben what size family and what budget?

@ben Not an EV, but it's at a great price point, hatchback makes it incredibly flexible, ours has been a reliable workhorse. Seats up to five, if the one in the back seat middle is small. The back seats fold to make the entire back volume available for hauling. Hits 40mpg pretty reliably.

Honda Fit (ours is from 2008). I recommend manual transmission.

@ben Hyundai/Kia seems to have overtaken the market with their offerings, which are surprisingly very good! My friend thoroughly enjoys his new-ish Ioniq, and having gotten the demo from him, I wouldn’t hesitate to consider them myself in the future (if I ever get over the fear of driving a giant hackable computer on wheels 🙃 — my biggest fear is a hacker steering people off the road remotely)

@ben For two people, I’d probably look into ID4 or BMW i3 Electric.

@GottaLaff @ben FWIW, wife bought the all-electric Ford Mach-E Mustang a coupla years ago. She loves it. We had Ford’s fastest charger (level-3) installed at home, giving ~ +10%/hr.

Issues:
• Last Fall a software update “bricked” the car. Luckily, in our garage. AAA got it out and to local dealer for fix.
• Flat/touchscreen controls—I’m not a fan. Gimme tactile, to keep eyes safely on the road.
• Range: meh.

Quibbles:
• Seats don’t tilt.
• Door handles cup upward—fills w/ ice & snow.
• etc…

@iDGS SO helpful, thank you! I’m not in the market for awhile, so I suspect by the time I buy again, there will be more EVs in general to choose from. Plus we’ll be living in Canada, where there are fewer options. @ben

@ben I drive a 2017 Chevy Bolt #EV, and since they just put in a brand-spanking-new batter a little over a year ago (due to the recall), I’ll be keeping this one for another five years.

However, just today we picked up my son’s new car: a used 2021 Hyundai Elantra Hybrid. I really wanted to him to drive an EV, but since we won’t know where he’s going to college for a while a hybrid was the more practical choice.

@iDGS One thing I love about the i3 is that there are no touch screens to deal with. The control is on the console. @ben

@evan @kevincianfarini @ben I drive a 2017 Bolt EV as well! It’s a great ride and the best thing is I charge it up in my garage.

@ben I’m interested in testing a Kia EV9 when it starts being built in Georgia later this year.

@dnorman @ben unless this is a vehicle only for local use - I’ve heard enough stories about chargers people were counting on not working that I wouldn’t rely on an EV if you plan to drive out of town.

@ben in NZ we bought an MG4, a BEV, to replace our ICE Subaru wagon. It's pretty superb. It was 'car of the year' in NZ and Australia last year (and in NZ the year before, too, I believe). Don't think it's available in the US, sadly, as it's Chinese-manufactured (like almost all the interesting components in 'US-made' cars) and it seems that the US trusts its gov't more than China's (a bad bet, in my opinion)... But if you can find one, worth checking out. (Fwiw, I'm in the US right now)

@ben family of 3 and a medium dog, very happy with our 2019 Kia Niro EV (not the hybrid version). The Hyundai Kona is basically the same car.

You do need to think about where you’ll charge on road trips, but I haven’t found it to be a big deal in practice.

@ben the BMW i4 is rated well and BMW seems to have the least bad privacy policy among current connected cars. None reviewed by mozilla have good privacy policies. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/

KIA and Honda have a decent to cars but their privacy policy are creeepy (and are especially easy to steal described later). I personally don't like kia's we can collect religious/philosophical beliefs and sexual orientation section.

Several car companies also think they should be allowed to collect genetic ior medical nformation, though they don't specify how they do it.

(Mozilla didn't review polestar though)

Also many of the modern cheaper cars remote keyless entry are subject to radio relay attacks and are very easy to steal.

The more luxury brands have motion sensors to turn off the keyfob if its sitting on a shelf.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/feb/24/smart-keys-car-crime-thieves-hi-tech-arms-race

However given the many downsides of current cars the idea of buying an old frame and retrofitting it with a drop in EV power train is really tempting.

@ben Ioniq 5.

@ben I've been looking at the Kia EV6 or Hyundai IONIQ 5 for my family's next vehicle. They look nice and like they offer pretty good bang for the buck. I think I'd love a Rivian R3 but those seem to be a few years out in the future still.

@ben Interested, my kid is looking right now too in Seattle for a used EV or small non gas guzzler if possible.

@tchambers @ben I was very much "next car will be an EV" for years (waiting for either of our current ones to need replacement), but given the charging infrastructure, costs, high insurance on EVs, and parts issues, I have been leaning strongly to plug-in Prius. Most of our driving would fit within the battery, but we could take rarer long trips without a reliance on spotty charging systems.

@glennf @tchambers @ben My family of four has had a Chevy Bolt EV as our only vehicle for 7 years now. There's no way I'd ever go back to gas. For the very rare road trip longer than ~200 miles we just rent a gas-powered car. IMO it's silly to base one's vehicle choice on a use case that only happens once or twice a year when renting a car is so easy.

If I were buying a new EV today, I'd probably get either the Hyundai Ioniq 5 or the Kia EV9.

@ben How many people and what’s your frequent car usage routine look like? That will decide between a PHEV or BEV.

@The_Tim @tchambers @ben Not my full reply: insurance, repair, parts issue (shortages, replacements, limited service outlets, backlog of repairs), and much higher EV than plug-in hybrid cost are all contributing as we, like you, are not made of money!

@ben Nissan leaf

@glennf @tchambers @ben FWIW our EV has needed basically zero service. 🤷

@The_Tim That’s great! But anecdote ≠ statistic, and I like to read Consumer Reports and the car value services, which track service, etc. Insurers are apparently starting to really bump up rates (this varies by state how much and how fast). I look *forward* to an EV. Ultimately, I think ICs will die very fast at the end, as the infrastructure to support them will disappear very quickly since mostly private (gas stations, etc.).

@The_Tim It would also cost us ~$1,000–$1,500 to install an EV charger at our house, so I can defer that cost (and it might go down) until I'm ready, too.

@ben Ioniq 5

@ben i would explore whether it was more environmentally conscious to buy a 2nd hand ICV.

@ben Used EV prices have crashed as a result of price cuts by Tesla and others. You can find a low mileage 2-3 year old $70k new EV for $35-$40k, with plenty of battery warranty left to go. One of the hidden great value spots in the current market. Love my 22 Audi EV.

@ben Despite Elon being insane (among other things), Teslas are pretty good cars and still the best value for a good EV. How many people are you going to put in it? Do you have any other particular requirements? What is your budget? The Kia EV9 seems like a great SUV for larger families that would be on the cheaper end. The Rivian R1S would be my choice for larger family and more budget though.

@GottaLaff @ben

So you are that cool looking woman that flies by in the HOV lane!

@mastodonmigration LOL @ben

@ben At the moment, it seems fairly clear that the most new electric car for the money you can get is a recent Hyundai Ioniq or Kia EV6. But, it's quite a bit of money. I'm told there are real bargains out there in used BEVs.