@dori I think sometimes people get so wrapped up in the technical aspects that they forget they have to market the concept to real people.
@dori I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the IndieWeb and open web communities as a whole. @bradenslen also hits the nail on the head. Right now it feels like the web is missing a collection of strong ambassadors, specifically people who have talent for explaining complex scenarios in a way that is both understandable and relatable to more people.
@dori I completely agree with your perspective. Focusing only on technical discussions won’t help the adoption. I have struggled many a times to point people to references for what and why of IndieWeb. As @simonwoods says, we need strong ambassadors who can clearly communicate the benefits.
@amit @dori @simonwoods I touched on this in passing. It certainly means reaching out to communities like Tumbler and the edu people leaving G+, but you have to have a more consumer ready product for them to go too. You can get a small hosted, turnkey Mastodon instance for 5 Euros a month, just add domain. Why can't you get a turnkey Indieweb ready blog?
I think adoption of Indieweb blogs would speed up rapidly if something like this was available.
Another factor is documentation. I can appreciate that coders are busy coding and don't want to get bogged down with writing comprehensive and comprehensible documentation and how to's but if you want wider adoption it has to be done.
The more I think about it, if Micro.blog supported full two way Indieweb commenting it would be very close to that turnkey Indieweb hosting solution. It's already close, with so many elements in place, but not quite there.
cc. @smokey
@bradenslen @amit @simonwoods Does anyone still have a reference to the post and/or discussion on here from earlier this year about the four phases, where the first two were technologist-focused and the second two were more consumer-focused, and Micro.blog being a stage 2/3 service? I thought about that when I read Dori’s post, and I recall there was some good discussion back then.
Spending time finding pain points and writing docs and whatnot is right up my alley, but I find I just don’t have as many hours in the day as I used to back in the Camino/NeoOffice/libwpd days, or I would have jumped in with that :-(
The more I think about it, if Micro.blog supported full two way Indieweb commenting it would be very close to that turnkey Indieweb hosting solution. It's already close, with so many elements in place, but not quite there.
This 👍
@dori And it appears that the great migration off Tumblr is happening… with what appears to be a consensus to move to Discord.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
@smokey I can't remember the discussion surrounding that but I do know Manton covered it in his and Jean's talk at IndieWeb Summit. It's a couple minutes in; the IndieWeb Generations, right?
the IndieWeb Generations, right?
Bizapta-kidda! This conversation started by @eli and this one started by @colinwallker are the ones I was thinking of.
(Thanks, Webmentions, blogs displaying Webmentions, @EddieHinkle, and DuckDuckGo for enabling me to find them again. And Simon for remembering the correct terminology, of course!)
@smokey @dori @simonwoods @bradenslen @amit I think there are two very important aspects and you all have hit the first one perfectly (and in referring to the generations have nodded at the other). The first is that there can be a challenge in technical communities to think non-technical, it is definitely a huge hurdle for some. The other is the fact that the last year or two has had some large leaps in IndieWeb technology and it's some of these technologies like Social Readers that are really needed before a lot of the Tumblr, Facebook and Twitter crowds will want to join in. So the reason the "generations" where created (a concept that we are actually re-thinking and planning on revamping in the near future) was to establish the idea that first we have to invent the technology and then we have to make it useable. There have been some major technology inventing going on for the last many years but some huge progress in the last year or two. We are really getting to a place where hopefully we will be able to refine some of this stuff and it will feel more approachable to non-technical communities.
@EddieHinkle @smokey @simonwoods @bradenslen @amit Regarding your first point: I've been saying for years that translating between Geek and English (and back again) is my superpower — now if only someone was willing to pay me for it…
Tangential to your second point, this conversation (and other, similar ones) really feels like the IndieWeb folks are designing new shoes for someone in the process of having both legs cut off. What generation tool might be available in the future is irrelevant to a community that believes its death date is only a few days away. This is why I was trying to have this conversation five months ago; it's a very specific issue, not a generalized one to be lumped in with Twitter and Facebook.
It's a damn shame. It really is.
@dori @smokey @simonwoods @bradenslen @amit it makes sense and I completely understand that. But having seen some conversations where IndieWeb people have reached out to some people leaving Tumblr they have been unreceptive. So I do think the current tooling we’re working on (social readers, etc) is essential to people like those on Tumblr. Maybe not ALL of them, but I’ve definitely seen “you don’t have what we need” feedback. 🤷♂️ We do what we can and try to keep moving things forward before another site goes down the hole.