jabel
jabel

It feels sometimes that critics of euthanasia laws–see the closing paragraphs here–expect everyone to die like Christ on the cross. Why should we force people to endure a death that can only be endured gracefully by saints and martyrs, but which is slow torture to regular mortals?

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ReaderJohn
ReaderJohn

@jabel Wow! I don't see how you could get that feeling from Libresco-Sargent's article. On this subject, we must have much different "priors."

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jabel
jabel

@ReaderJohn I’m sure we do have different priors. With all the usual caveats about mental illness and suicide, I do not see suicide as morally problematic. I take the more Stoic view of it. On this see Marcus Aurelius and the possibly apocryphal quote from Seneca. (I apologize for the poor quality of the links but I’m about to walk out the door.) This also indicates to me that the acceptability of suicide as an option is not simply the result of any modern idolatry but is a possibility in one of the most important and influential philosophies of the ancient world. As with other issues, the arguments against euthanasia often do not recognize how dependent they are on a Christian worldview.

As for the article itself, she says we should accept that dying is “a time of profound need, copious bodily effluvia, and reliance on another’s strength.” What does “accept” mean here? Recognition that it happens? Well obviously. Accept that we must endure it? Why?

“We are heavier in our old age, requiring more helpers to carry and clean us, but also freighted with shame.” Again, we must take on this shame, no matter what? Why?

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ablerism
ablerism

@jabel I agree that opposing euthanasia probably does hang, in the end, on a Christian world view. But most opponents I read on this aren't glorifying the suffering as such; it's that the specter of the (aggregate) alternative is so much worse. If we accept euthanasia on the basis of bodily autonomy + a wish to cut short states of bodily dependence, we tacitly or explicitly frame states of dependence as the abject — unnecessary, inefficient for the state, even incompatible with a good life. I worry that a eugenic logic starts to follow, especially where there's money to be made and a bureaucratic spreadsheet of decisions in front of us.

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ablerism
ablerism

@jabel (This is why you’ll find radical left secular disability activists in unlikely coalition with orthodox Christians on the issue.)

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toddgrotenhuis
toddgrotenhuis

@ablerism it’s true!

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canneddragons
canneddragons

@jabel @ReaderJohn Oh absolutely, much of this does depend on a Christian worldview. As Tom Holland would point out, so does respect for women, believing the disabled can have worth, hospitals, caring for the needy, etc.

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jabel
jabel

@ablerism I appreciate you taking the time to respond—especially since you’re a scholar in the area. I do agree that when this moves out of the abstract and into the world of money making and bureaucracy, it gets far more dicey. My mom is increasingly dependent on me (in fact, I took her to an initial palliative care appointment today) and the more familiar I become with the health care system at the end of life, the more I loathe the prospect of falling victim to it myself.

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ablerism
ablerism

@jabel Oh wow — that is a lot to carry and contemplate. Sending you well wishes and big respect as you make those decisions together. Nothing to romanticize about those many realities.

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In reply to
canneddragons
canneddragons

@jabel That sounds like you are on a difficult path. Prayers for you and your mom. I remember well having to tell the hospital doctors not to do anything to prolong my dad's life (which would have compromised his intentions).

These are tough questions to wrestle with, especially when you are in the thick of it.

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jabel
jabel

@ablerism Thank you.

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jabel
jabel

@canneddragons Thank you. She’s actually not in terrible health right now but her quality of life has taken a turn. She’s tired of being tired and in pain.

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