jsonbecker
jsonbecker
Self-censorship json.blog
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sherif
sherif

@jsonbecker I read and appreciated your post and had some thoughts that I started to type out into a reply that became long enough that I made it a post on its own.

bulletin.sherif.io/2024/02/1...

Would love to hear any thoughts you might have of course, but in any case thank you for the good excuse to write something.

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jsonbecker
jsonbecker

@sherif I think I agree with everything here. I don’t mean to minimize this category, which I might call “the heretic”, but I do think I skipped over it for a reason. The vast majority of people who think they fall into this camp don’t. The number of people who believe this is where they stand far exceeds reality. Most people who hold deeply contrary views that end up having a very bad time are actually in camp (1) or (2). The most likely people who hold heretical views that are deeply important and prove to have lasting truth are those in group (3). That’s because in establishing the… establishment view, group (3) is almost always not included by definition.

Consider the guy who freaked out and took his ball home because people on MB did not agree it was harassment to say broadly that white, hetero, cis, Christian males generally have more power and privilege in society. He thinks he’s a heretic, but he’s firmly in group (1) when presenting his reasoning. He thinks we were treating him like he was in group (2), but actually his definitions and arguments are just well-trodden, naive, novice reactions many people have on the surface of being confronted with these ideas for the first time.

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jsonbecker
jsonbecker

@sherif I appreciate the thoughtful response and additions!

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In reply to
Denny
Denny

@sherif @jsonbecker Well said and thanks to both of you for writing on the self-censorship threads.

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pratik
pratik

@Denny @jsonbecker @sherif Yes, thanks to both for delving into the details and giving much food for thought.

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sherif
sherif

@jsonbecker That all makes sense. There will be a lot of people who cry victim when criticized. I suppose one of the points I wanted to highlight (the challenge to me too really) is that a heretic is highly offensive in their time but later it turns out the righteous majority was wrong. How to keep an open mind to that so I don't silence the heretic without letting the bad people/ideas off the hook too much. Heretics are rare sure, but I also care about the heretic-lite, or even people who are wrong but in good faith. I don't think we're in disagreement :)

And ah I should've known that there was some context I was missing. I had a feeling. I haven't been plugged in to MB much lately, so I had no idea there was drama. Helpful to know.

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sherif
sherif

@bixfrankonis Yeah, I hear you. This definitely belongs to a class of tradeoff where fools/baddies will sneak in under the cover you create to allow for the good and true. I think of it similar to the tradeoffs we – theoretically – make in jurisprudence. Make the threshold for guilt high because it's better for a guilty person to go free than for an innocent to be falsely imprisoned (yes, there is a field of asterisks). Defending that tradeoff will be hard for those particularly harmed by bad people who went free.

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