@mcg I guess. You know I was reading that at the time and thought the exact opposite. It's funny how things are so disparate in different parts of the world. Over here you get a month for every year you spent at the company, by law. My last job working for someone else lasted 19 years. They were trying to downsize, so they were actually offering 1.5 months per year.
@maique Here, in the tech world at least, the only way you get any real time off is the break between jobs. Having six months would be amazing.
@mcg Yes, yes, I totally get it. Six months is great, and I’m guessing they will have no trouble finding new jobs, as far as I could tell by the discussions on Twitter.
@pimoore I've got a new project I'm gettting off the ground—my current buisness has used Basecamp for, at least, five years. In a few months, it'll be interesting to see the impact of this. From a public (and employee) relations perspective it sure seems like it could have been handled better.
@crossingthethreshold I miss HEY already, but glad I gave up in the end. Already refunded. You’re right. I guess they can always hire more people, and get to those updates, but everything seems tainted now. Also tainted the hey.com address, so people might think twice before using it. Afraid it might wither a bit.
@maique it’s not easy to find good developers, wry high demand always, and it’s even harder when it’s well known that a lot of people are leaving.
@maique a former employer of mine have a very hard time recruiting and usually end up filling open positions with consultants at 2-3 times the cost
@hjertnes I saw yesterday a LOT of companies were offering jobs to the people who left by now, and that agrees with what you’re saying. Not too familiar with the industry, but always willing to learn about it, thank you for the information.
@maique I’ve always been thinking that I’d take a severance package if offered and probably find a new job very fast, and pocketing x months of salary
@hjertnes in USA many severance agreements say you stop getting it when you start a new job. Hard to enforce though.
@patrickrhone it’s common here when companies are going to scale down to volunteer for a severance package
There’s a saying in the management consulting biz: People join a company because of its mission, they leave because of its management. No company is exempt from this. If an employee is loyal to the mission but the management is terrible, that employee will take the first opportunity to get away.
The appalling hubris of those two chuckleheads: they confused everyone’s loyalty to Basecamp with loyalty to them. (But I shouldn’t be surprised: it’s a classic mistake that every autocratic dictator makes.)
@patrickrhone It would, yes. Maybe as a gesture of good faith… Over here I’ve heard of cases of fake firings, where you get the severance payment, and can enroll for unemployment benefits, even though you’re the one wanting to leave. On paper you were fired.
@rnv Not disagreeing exactly, but I think there's a middleground too... Someone who was already thinking they'd probably leave in 1-2 years, maybe to do their own thing, but they don't have savings or health insurance. For them, 6 months pay accelerates that 1-2 years to "now" pretty easily.
@manton Absolutely, yes. And there are so many nuances. For example, it’s not just that management has to be “terrible” in order for employees to decide to leave; it can be any sort of irreconcilable conflict between the management style and the employee. And speaking of nuance, a more measured way of making my main point is that managers often fool themselves into thinking everything is fine simply because no one is bolting for the door. People may not be loyal to what you think they are, which could lead you to put all sorts of effort into maintaining loyalty that isn't actually there. Like Rands sez, bored people quit. Offended people do, too.
@maique I feel like customers are a big factor that gets lost in the discussion of what’s happening with employees. It’s a shame for those that were still using and enjoying HEY to be placed in the position of having to cancel the service out of fear of longevity and continued support. Not unfounded concerns, since the entire iOS dev team is now gone.
@pimoore I do think that that is a part of this whole episode that is not been talked about. Plenty of people congratulating themselves on never using their products, but I imagine plenty quite happy with what they are using and wondering what next? Do they stay or move on (for all sorts of reasons)?
@maique I hear you. I have two months to run on my subscription. I joined last year after hearing about it on Micro.blog when it was still pre-release. I was not handling my email well and HEY has helped, a lot. I have had concerns about being locked in, but overall I was happy with my experience. I’ll keep en eye on what happens next, but will probably use the next two months to migrate elsewhere…and tell all those who I have asked to use my HEY address to now use this new one! 🙄😁
@pimoore That was one of the reasons why I left. Thankfully not been there for long, so no real harm done on my side.
@crossingthethreshold I was using Hey, and liking it a LOT. Hadn’t started using their email everywhere, but loved it as a client for my domains with the SMTP workaround. Not enough to justify the cost, but really enjoying the experience. Now I’m back at square one, and it’s not an issue. But I miss it.
@maique I was already gone before all this went down, and they issued a refund which I appreciated. Lastnight I subscribed to FastMail so my workflow is now official.
@maique Is Hey going out of business, or is just not ok to use it now? trying to make sense of all these timeline posts from far outside the loop.
@pimoore Also got the refund, and it was very speedy. Fastmail has worked for me without fail since 2013, and I’m happy with it. I loved Hey, though, a very nice change of mindset.
@JMaxB I have really no idea if they're going out of business, but I doubt it. I have no more information than the one shared online. I'm not even in the industry, and am in another continent. All I have to go on are feelings.
I felt uncomfortable when I read about it, and sticked around a little longer, trying to make sense about it. A few posts and a podcast later, I was feeling more uncomfortable, and seriously started considering moving away from the service, one that I was really enjoying using.
A day later I read about all the people leaving the company, and, still mostly in the dark about the whole story, as most of us are, thought it was enough to part ways with Hey. If the ones that built it are willing to put that behind, and feel they had to leave, something must be going on.
I found the product well designed, well marketed, and supported. The people I spoke to as a customer, needing support, were always very nice, helpful, and quick on the replies. They were everything I can hope for in a company.
But now they're gone. I have no idea what's coming in the future, but the ones that made the product I loved are gone because this mess took place. I could no longer support it, or use it without that nagging feeling. So I left.
I might, of course, be totally wrong. But I went with my feelings.
@maique thanks! yeah, i assume that all these people left because they know that they're pretty employable, and that there are lots of pretty employable people to take their place. it's not like quitting your barely-survivable job at the grocery store because the manager is a jerk.
@rnv tbf the “brand” has been built around them. I guess they’re discovering the limits of that approach.