Micro.blog

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

I like the fact that mastodon.social is the biggest instance, but I would leave for an instance that is paid only, say $10/month, has a cool domain name, and thus can afford to raise the rate limits.

Mastodon.social feels like earlyntwotter both culturally (good), and fail-whale-wise (not good).

atharv@mastodon.world
atharv@mastodon.world

@gruber been trying out omg.lol but would love to find one that’s both paid and prevalent

jan@toot.io
jan@toot.io

@gruber me.dm

martinfeld@social.lol
martinfeld@social.lol

@gruber I'd recommend social.lol/, run by @adam of home.omg.lol. He's one of the nicest guys on the Web and runs a great service with cool features. 👍

abodnar@mastodon.social
abodnar@mastodon.social

@gruber Could setup a Daring Fireball instance on Linode.

I think a cool feature would be to have custom domains that could be used without having to setup the whole Mastodon infrastructure.

hicksca@mastodon.social
hicksca@mastodon.social

@gruber same

radu@mstdn.md
radu@mstdn.md

@gruber what could be cooler than @gruber@daringfireball.net?

jbrodley@mastodon.social
jbrodley@mastodon.social

@gruber Yes, the lag of stuff coming to this feed vs my podcast account is quite large, and makes me feel I’m getting an inferior experience. A paid option may make some sense especially as you said if it comes with higher rate limits.

jmj@social.lol
jmj@social.lol

@gruber You should checkout omg.lol. It’s $20 and you get a Mastodon account and so much more.

Eramdam@octodon.social
Eramdam@octodon.social

@gruber @simonbs I mean, you can toss that 10$ to the Patreon I suppose

timpeix@mastodon.berlin
timpeix@mastodon.berlin

@gruber Very happy with my local mastodon.berlin instance so far. Aren't there any Philly-based ones that you would consider? You're not going to leave your hometown soon I suppose ;-)

jwolman@sxgr.fun
jwolman@sxgr.fun

@gruber I am unsure of the possible downsides of a 1-20 user instance, but I am enjoying using masto.host to host an instance on one of my domains for $9/mo.

DonSqueak@hachyderm.io
DonSqueak@hachyderm.io

@gruber Everybpdy loved earlyntwotter

mikehaynes@mastodon.design
mikehaynes@mastodon.design

@gruber in my experience, you can find tightly curated instances that don’t *require* you to pay but encourage it.

simonbs@mastodon.social
simonbs@mastodon.social

@Eramdam @gruber I’m already a patreon. I’m under the impression that those money go toward the development of Mastodon rather than running the mastodon.social instance.

lmika@social.lol
lmika@social.lol

@gruber Another vote for omg.lol

timbray@hachyderm.io
timbray@hachyderm.io

@gruber

I'm working with some people who trying to set up an instance which is a member-owned co-op. A bit of spreadsheeting suggests that for a large-ish instance you could run just fine on $5/month.

Eramdam@octodon.social
Eramdam@octodon.social

@simonbs @gruber iirc that's mostly the same group of people doing both. There might be more details in the regular Patreon updates?

kevin@social.lol
kevin@social.lol

@gruber +1 for social.lol (part of omg.lol).

chris@hamilton.social
chris@hamilton.social

@gruber masto.host is the way to go to host your own vanity instance

jadeonly@hachyderm.io
jadeonly@hachyderm.io

@gruber Consider hachyderm.io, it has @nova who is both good and does the bits right. And she does it in public, like live streaming while working on it and public dashboards.

JustinW80@jawns.club
JustinW80@jawns.club

@gruber jawns.club is a Greater Philly geo-instance. No pay gate, however.

jawns.club/explore

#Philadelphia

harpaa01@mastodon.social
harpaa01@mastodon.social

@gruber I’ve been thinking a lot about finding a more permanent Mastodon home. I’m hoping to find someone who plans to stick around for the long haul and will be sustainable and have the capacity for higher rate limits, but also I want to find an instance run by people who share similar values about moderation and what instances to keep blocked out.

It feels a lot like trying to pick a neighborhood to move to.

mattround@crispsandwi.ch
mattround@crispsandwi.ch

@gruber I ended up using a cool domain of my own and decided to outsource the sysadmin headaches to masto.host , v impressed so far (might open it up at some point, but still trying to gauge the economics of that)

glennf@twit.social
glennf@twit.social

@timbray @gruber I’ve been hoping that within another few months, membership organizations that already run some technical resources (like email boxes or forwarding) would add "Mastodon instance" to their package. I expect only a small %age of members would want it, but it would a great tool to encourage sign-ups if run professionally.

pls@mrnet.pt
pls@mrnet.pt

@gruber Head to masto.host, use your own domain, pay the $9 a month, and you have a ultrafast instance all to yourself… or maybe some family members or close friends…

I self-host mine; It’s really nice to have a small very fast instance to yourself.

waynegrayson@mstdn.party
waynegrayson@mstdn.party

@gruber
Totally agree. I figure it will happen sooner or later and that's one of the more exciting prospects of Mastodon: how will people build different experiences on top of it?

john@sauropods.win
john@sauropods.win

@abodnar @gruber masto.host @mastohost is pretty close to this.

scanner@apricot.social
scanner@apricot.social

@timbray @gruber mmm. I over speccd my instance at $24/mo but now I am using it to lift multiple things. Helps that I am ancient internet era so this is trivial compared to running your own sendmail service. The trickiest thing is deciding how much I want to open it up to other people.

tekphloyd@social.lol
tekphloyd@social.lol

@gruber have a look at omg.lol. There you will get access to the friendliest Mastodon server on earth! social.lol! 😉 @prami

looserooster@mastodon.social
looserooster@mastodon.social

@gruber I still don’t understand how the instance affects my experience… so confusing

tommertron@masto.yttrx.com
tommertron@masto.yttrx.com

@gruber The problem is that people like yourselves with a very large follower count actually tax the instance much more than those with low follow counts. Ten bucks a month likely wouldn’t cover the server costs for a single popular account like yours.

jabell@social.lol
jabell@social.lol

@martinfeld @gruber @adam I second the omg.lol / social.lol recommendation.

bjtitus@mastodon.social
bjtitus@mastodon.social

@gruber I think omg.lol’s social.lol is probably the closest to this. Not my favorite domain, but it has a lot of combined services that can warrant the price.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@radu I’ve given that a lot of thought but I don’t want to be responsible for the instance. I think.

tekphloyd@social.lol
tekphloyd@social.lol

@martinfeld @gruber +1

@adam

anderspuck@krigskunst.social
anderspuck@krigskunst.social

@gruber @radu Get a hosted server. I use masto.host, and it works great.
You should probably have a different domain though for SEO reasons. Like daringfireball.social.

markdorison@mastodon.xyz
markdorison@mastodon.xyz

@gruber @radu Aren’t there managed hosting providers for Mastodon that would fit the bill?

michael@mast.mmwelch.net
michael@mast.mmwelch.net

@gruber @radu

$6.00 a month from @mastohost masto.host. Took me just a few minutes last Friday. Great service.

itsericp@mastodon.social
itsericp@mastodon.social

@gruber mastodon.fisteggplant

sleepy@mastodon.madhouse.org
sleepy@mastodon.madhouse.org

@gruber I just put my own instance up for myself. Have been running my own mailserver, webserver, etc forever.

The software is probably too complicated for my usecase it's built to handle lots of users. I'd love to see an api compatible simpler to setup mastodon clone, preferably that can ship binaries (not this sprawling ruby ball of goop).

abodnar@mastodon.social
abodnar@mastodon.social

@john @gruber @mastohost Very interesting. I may have to look into that.

mashby@techhub.social
mashby@techhub.social

@gruber

I think your idea of firing up @daringfireball.social is a good one. I’d pay. thisIsFine

elvo86@ohai.social
elvo86@ohai.social

@gruber what about social.lol? Paid service by omg.lol

lapcatsoftware@appdot.net
lapcatsoftware@appdot.net

@gruber A domain name like... app.net?

[heavy sigh]

wezm@mastodon.decentralised.social
wezm@mastodon.decentralised.social

@gruber I have my own instance with masto.host/ for $9/month (they run it for you). If you did that you could pick whatever domain you wanted and be sheltered from large instances going down.

conorporter@techhub.social
conorporter@techhub.social

@gruber these exist. micro.blog and then masto.host/dns/

film_girl@mastodon.social
film_girl@mastodon.social

@lapcatsoftware @gruber cries in $100 a year for @ christina. But I don’t regret it. Dalton tried.

eric@techy.social
eric@techy.social

@gruber Come join us at techy.social! Smaller instance and designed for scale.

film_girl@mastodon.social
film_girl@mastodon.social

@gruber totally agree. I gave the lead dev $80 today to try to be good to the “cause” but I’d happily pay $10 for a VIP instance.

chris@bulbasaur.garden
chris@bulbasaur.garden

@gruber Is hosting your own an option? I think I pay roughly $10/month for mine. The local timeline can look a bit lonely at times though.

Green_Footballs@mastodon.social
Green_Footballs@mastodon.social

@gruber Yes, the default rate limits seem very low, especially with so many new apps showing up, all of which need to use the API.

codinghorror@infosec.exchange
codinghorror@infosec.exchange

@timbray @gruber at Discourse, it was originally $10/month to get a machine to host a "small" community, but over time it crept down to $5 due to competition in the space. So this is accurate based on my lived experience.

codinghorror@infosec.exchange
codinghorror@infosec.exchange

@gruber oh wow at infosec.exchange I've seen zero instability whatsoever. Early Twitter was WAY worse. Way way worse. So much fail whale.

film_girl@mastodon.social
film_girl@mastodon.social

@lapcatsoftware @gruber Mashable ruined all the URLs but I want to find my app.net post-mortem. I remember being proud of it and running into one of the devs on it the day after it published and he said I nailed it.

lapcatsoftware@appdot.net
lapcatsoftware@appdot.net

@film_girl @gruber If you find it, I'd like to read it.

ADN was ahead of its time. Some people scoffed at subscriptions, but now look at Twitter Blue.

I'd trade 1000 Mastodon instances for the 1 ADN back.

shauny@tech.lgbt
shauny@tech.lgbt

@gruber bigger is not better, at least in the Fediverse.

jack@social.lol
jack@social.lol

@film_girl @gruber That's why I like omg.lol. Nice short username, and social.lol included!

covercash@mastodon.social
covercash@mastodon.social

@film_girl @gruber Mastodon Blue?

JPZ@mastodon.social
JPZ@mastodon.social

@gruber It would be cool with the premium Tapbots plan, but I remember one of them briefly explaining the legalities of it all. I’m not sure I’d want to also take that on, too. I would maybe use it.

@tapbots

phils@social.lol
phils@social.lol

@jmj @gruber and Merlin is here @hotdogsladies

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@abodnar I do too, and hope that becomes possible eventually.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@abodnar Like how MX records work for mail servers.

cliophate@overkill.social
cliophate@overkill.social

@chris @gruber I pay less via masto.host, and while their sign-ups are currently closed, I just mailed the guy, and he gave me a spot.

elranchero@fosstodon.org
elranchero@fosstodon.org

@gruber I have never see Mastodon crash and I have been using it about three or four months. I am on fosstodon.org

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@jan I love the me.dm domain name, but Medium is a venture-backed company. I don't trust that they'll be around, with the same ideals, for the long run.

stucki@mastodon.social
stucki@mastodon.social

@gruber I’ve definitely looked at managed hosting. Makes me regret giving up my very concise .io domain a few years ago.

maplesyrup@117.social
maplesyrup@117.social

@film_girl @gruber I'm curious what that looks like to you guys? You could run your own instance for about that... it's mostly hands off as the host sites take care of it. Scaling is the problem with Mastodon, but if it's just a few users, you would probably be fine.

jan@toot.io
jan@toot.io

@gruber Btw. migrating 27k followers to another instances takes around 3 days cause of the federation :) your target instance should have enough power to handle such a migration. I've supported companies migrating 50k+ followers.

ry@duck.haus
ry@duck.haus

@gruber 🥸

alex@toot.codatory.com
alex@toot.codatory.com

@gruber @timbray I kind of like the idea of this, maybe minorcelebrity.social. Tune it for follower heavy accounts, provide some generous limits and whatnot.

Jmelloy@vis.social
Jmelloy@vis.social

@film_girl @gruber I’m on a small instance, mostly because I didn’t really know how it worked, and the #trending section is completely empty. It was never really what I cared about Twitter for, but it is a very different experience.

misc@mastodon.social
misc@mastodon.social

@codinghorror @gruber Can confirm, I get rate limits more, but last night was the first time the whole thing was down for me, and for at least a year on early Twitter, it happened *all the time*. And in fairness re: the rate limits, I wasn’t running like 10 Twitter apps all the time either.

biggsjm@mastodon.social
biggsjm@mastodon.social

@gruber any servers you suggest moving to? And uh, how hard is it to migrate?

coachtony@me.dm
coachtony@me.dm

@gruber someone already said this, me.dm, and I want to +1 it. We are pretty close to opening up it up. It’ll be part of the $5 Medium subscription. Cool domain. Professional infrastructure. Professional moderation. Would be nice to have you now actually, because we are putting together a recommended follow list. Happy to help if you are interested.

bw@social.lol
bw@social.lol

@gruber The little community over here at social.lol is great. $20/year and you get everything offered by omg.lol/

timbray@hachyderm.io
timbray@hachyderm.io

@dnorman @gruber

The highest costs aren't going to be technology, they're going to be paying moderation and sysadmin staff. You can't run a sizeable instance without those people, and nobody should work for free.

codinghorror@infosec.exchange
codinghorror@infosec.exchange

@misc people really forget how incompetent Twitter was in the early .. and the middle.. days

brightpavilions@sfba.social
brightpavilions@sfba.social

@gruber Shoot … I just had to jump ship to a new instance because the server I was on stopped updating entirely with no response from the admin.

chockenberry@mastodon.social
chockenberry@mastodon.social

@film_girl @gruber HTTP://CHOCKLOCK.COM/@PREMUIM

invalidname@mastodon.social
invalidname@mastodon.social

@gruber I’m at the $10/month Patreon level for mastodon.social, though that’s not really the same thing, since not everyone is in at that level (presumably very few users are).

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@stucki What I'd like is one big premium paid-only instance that is a good profitable business for the people who run it.

misc@mastodon.social
misc@mastodon.social

@codinghorror Yeah. I’m pretty much a layperson, so I could be totally wrong, but I remember certain errors really gave me the impression that they were making changes live on production servers.

matthew@social.lol
matthew@social.lol

@gruber omg.lol!

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@codinghorror The big problem yesterday was a DDoS attack, but occasionally I'll get a "rate limit exceeded" error just trying to send a post or reload a timeline. Early Twitter "fail whale" outages were complete blackouts, so my comparison is perhaps overstated. I simply wish I could pay for a premium instance like I can for email with (e.g.) Fastmail.

kidehen@mastodon.social
kidehen@mastodon.social

@gruber,

Yep!

There has to be a functioning business model (not based on #Web20 #SurveillanceCapital bad practices) that funds underlying platform scalability required for increased rate limits etc..

/cc @atomicpoet

#Fediverse #BusinessModel

renchap@oisaur.com
renchap@oisaur.com

@gruber we are working hard at scaling it together with @Gargron, good news to come hopefuly soon! New infrastructure is on the way…

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@timbray That jibes with my gut feeling that $10/mo would be profitable for someone.

codinghorror@infosec.exchange
codinghorror@infosec.exchange

@gruber yeah. the important thing is that we, the users, take control. I'm doing everything I can to make that happen, but I need your help.

pmcg@mastodon.social
pmcg@mastodon.social

@glennf @timbray @gruber It would be nice to see it as part of iCloud+ but that would necessitate a big client software change on System Settings & etc (should Messages support fediverse? Mail? neither seems quite right) … so MacOS 15 & ilk? Quite a waiting period.

sharding@mastodon.social
sharding@mastodon.social

@gruber @codinghorror In some ways I kinda prefer a fail whale, because then it's clear it's totally down rather than just "is something up with my connection?"

ryan@goodlett.social
ryan@goodlett.social

@gruber I just migrated from mastodon.social to my own on masto.host. 🤞 It’s been painless so far.

Gargron@mastodon.social
Gargron@mastodon.social

@gruber Rate limits are primarily about abuse prevention (spam, scraping), so it’s not about affordability. Which limits are you hitting? Perhaps I can adjust the software itself.

pvieito@mastodon.social
pvieito@mastodon.social

@gruber Somebody should run a paid-only Mastodon instance at the app.net domain 😂

d@waferbaby.com
d@waferbaby.com

@gruber There's also self-hosting!

proximacentauri@mstdn.social
proximacentauri@mstdn.social

@gruber @codinghorror HELL YEAH! Now bring the band back together with @spolsky, and make this happen.

Other ActivityPub servers have this fancy thing called search, it works fantastic, just not in Mastodon.

Other ActivityPub servers don't have a home timeline limited to 400 posts.

If you can convince Joel that the Block API thing isn't going to work -- and it isn't going to there is one JS framework per week, how the f* do they do consistent API for that, you could do something in this space

yuroon@mastodon.social
yuroon@mastodon.social

@gruber @codinghorror Do you have a lot of open tabs? That was the cause of my chronic "rate limit exceeded" @mastodon.social.

sathomas@vmst.io
sathomas@vmst.io

@gruber

Me too.

Lots of folks suggesting masto.host, but I'm sure you've looked at it. I love what Hugo's doing there, but it is definitely not appropriate for someone with your follower count.

I wonder if that's a small flaw in the fedirated architecture. Your costs don't scale very well with the number of folks that follow you.

Maybe an icloud.com instance someday?

foursides@mstdn.ca
foursides@mstdn.ca

@gruber Would be a great addition to the Stratechery bundle.

tylerfarmer@mstdn.ca
tylerfarmer@mstdn.ca

@gruber agreed 👍

tylerfarmer@mstdn.ca
tylerfarmer@mstdn.ca

@gruber I’m interested in what @mozilla will do with theirs.

harpaa01@mastodon.social
harpaa01@mastodon.social

@Gargron I‘ve been seeing “error: too many requests” a lot in the last several days myself. I suspect it might be that I’ve been playing with a lot of clients and maybe too many are refreshing often enough that I got rate limited.

Would love to see these limits increase! I think they’re all authenticated requests too.

tim@photog.social
tim@photog.social

@gruber maybe you'd be interested in omg.lol then.

raphael@mastodon.communick.com
raphael@mastodon.communick.com

@gruber May I interest you on communick.com?

$10/year gives you an account or you can also purchase a "10-pack contract" for $5/month, where you can invite some of your friends to join you.

medievalist@writing.exchange
medievalist@writing.exchange

@timbray @gruber I note that that Admin UI and server-side stuff is non-trivial. Need really good Unix fluent server admin volunteers, or managed hosting

paul@tapbots.social
paul@tapbots.social

@Gargron @gruber just to step in here, I'm guessing the issue is that Per IP rate limit. If that could be per OAuth token it'd probably be hit a lot less often. As of now its kind of easy to hit if you are running clients on multiple devices + have a lot of push notifications (which is another issue that I owe you some details on).

dan@dh.social
dan@dh.social

@gruber I lean to liking a paid instance. I have one that is $6/m and rather pay that fee than give $11 to Twitter. I feel shared instances without a custom domain repeats mistakes of lock in.

travelingflwr@raphus.social
travelingflwr@raphus.social

@chockenberry @film_girl @gruber LOL

maique@social.lol
maique@social.lol

@gruber Come on over to social.lol prami

seibert@mstdn.social
seibert@mstdn.social

@glennf @timbray @gruber I’d love it if a company like @fastmail offered Mastodon hosting. They’ve had my email business for more than a decade, and this feels like a natural extension for them.

dpatriarche@mastodon.social
dpatriarche@mastodon.social

@timbray I registered my interest in cosocial.ca a couple of months ago and had been wondering how it was going. Any status info you can share?

raphael@mastodon.communick.com
raphael@mastodon.communick.com

@Gargron @gruber Mastodon.social already amounts to what, 20-30% of the accounts on the network? Wouldn't that be the perfect opportunity for you to promote *other* instances to help spread things out a bit?

film_girl@mastodon.social
film_girl@mastodon.social

@codinghorror @misc my favorite memory is being at a future of web apps or something conference and a guy from Twitter who I won’t name (but every early person knew him) was giving a talk about how successful Twitter was and how great it was and how awesome it scaled. And the audience, including me, sort of stops him and says “yo, your website is like not working at right now” - this was early 2008 so this was pre SRE from Google says and yeah. That will never not be funny.

paul@tapbots.social
paul@tapbots.social

@Gargron @gruber another thing that would help is raising the per-request results returned, specially for /api/v1/notifications, 30 per batch is way too low for some accounts.

jason@logoff.website
jason@logoff.website

@gruber tbh I feel like a large instance has a higher chance someone is a world-class dick and gets the whole server blocked elsewhere.

I’d _ideally_ run a server just for myself but for the moment being on one with like three people is similar enough.

jaredzimmerman@social.jaredzimmerman.com
jaredzimmerman@social.jaredzimmerman.com

@paul @Gargron @gruber I hit the same thing testing #grazeForMastodon each tap was pinging my little test instance with notification queries and I rate limited myself almost immediately.

medievalist@writing.exchange
medievalist@writing.exchange

@gruber @glennf You know about the reaped DDoS attacks, right?

DataDrivenMD@fedified.com
DataDrivenMD@fedified.com

@gruber Speaking from experience: once you hit 5K followers, you're virtually guaranteed to be well federated if you move to your own instance. The challenge is the migration itself-- it requires coordination between the two parties. In my case, I left 5K followers behind, and have to wait a couple more weeks to get the rest of them to migrate.

Happy to talk through some other options I considered via DM, if helpful.

teomatteo89@mastodon.social
teomatteo89@mastodon.social

@Gargron @gruber even I, with my tiny account, did hit the rate limiter when exploring/searching other accounts

jsit@social.coop
jsit@social.coop

@timbray @gruber social.coop is a co-op

tbridge@theinternet.social
tbridge@theinternet.social

@gruber @stucki we’ve got a good domain name at least, and so far our hosting bill hasn’t been too bad…

djnavarro@fosstodon.org
djnavarro@fosstodon.org

@gruber I keep my main account on fosstodon since it suits me as a nice mix of large-but-not-overwhelmingly-large and has a topic focus that I like but I’ve absolutely loved having alts out in the smaller, more esoteric parts of fediverse. You get a very different perspective on the network from the fringes

michaeljensen@mas.to
michaeljensen@mas.to

@film_girl @gruber or at least a few to transfer between instances. sorta seems like we’re all taking a shot in the dark on instances with a “cool” name right now, but when there’s a clear leader it would be nice to transfer handle/followers to a new instance

albertkinng@home.social
albertkinng@home.social

@gruber I’m sorry, What?! I think you got the Mastodon thing way wrong. Not trying to have a debate here, just pointing out that this platform is brilliant just for the fact that you can jump to any server you like. For example, if you don’t like mastodon.social you can transfer your account to another one that fit your needs. So let’s say you definitely didn’t find any server at all, you can create your own. Mastodon is that open. Hope you don’t get this the wrong way.

ngorby@mastodon.social
ngorby@mastodon.social

@gruber don’t tell me that! I just switched to this instance! lol

FuckElon@mastodon.social
FuckElon@mastodon.social

@paul @Gargron @gruber

Is this what creates the problem of the "Home" column getting stuck? Sometimes it shows "load more" but clicking on it does not work, sometimes it does not show anything, just stops.

Funny because for lists it does not happen, I can scroll down ad aeternum...

mako@mastodon.makoism.com
mako@mastodon.makoism.com

@cliophate @chris @gruber same. been working great so far.

cameronbanga@mastodon.social
cameronbanga@mastodon.social

@chockenberry @film_girl @gruber ITS THE ONLY INSTANCE WHERE YOU CAN SHOW YOUR CHOCK AND NOT NEED TO ADD A CONTENT WARNING

JustMrLarz@mas.to
JustMrLarz@mas.to

@Gargron @gruber @paul MetaText used to hit the limit often & fast as soon as you started looking at trending info or searched hashtags. That’s why I started looking elsewhere for apps.

reid@intentional.network
reid@intentional.network

@gruber @radu Consider having another company host it, e.g. masto.host/ for $6/month.

Works great if you host on a dedicated domain. If you want to use the daringfireball.net apex domain, you'd need more fancy hosting which lets you set `WEB_DOMAIN` and some config on your blog webserver.

docs.joinmastodon.org/admin/co

tiff@hachyderm.io
tiff@hachyderm.io

@gruber hachyderm.io is a rock solid instance run by a team of DevOps engineers that work at GitHub.

It's the best instance I'm on as far as performance after a rocky start. Close to 40,000 users and they handled a DDoS attack when the instance was literally hosted in the admins basement home lab.

Try it.

tomwinzig@mastodon.social
tomwinzig@mastodon.social

@codinghorror @gruber What do you need help with

mcelhearn@journa.host
mcelhearn@journa.host

@film_girl @gruber With a blue check. ;-)

cameronbanga@mastodon.social
cameronbanga@mastodon.social

@paul @gruber Would be great to hear you Talking on a Show about it.

mlabowicz@bigshoulders.city
mlabowicz@bigshoulders.city

@timbray @gruber opportunity for REI? 🤣

matt@author.chat
matt@author.chat

@gruber Yet another vote for @mastohost. ~$6/mo for fully managed Mastodon on your own domain.

LunaInverse@masto.nyc
LunaInverse@masto.nyc

@gruber I guess that’s why I got masto.nyc but it’s okay. Interesting social network so far.

codinghorror@infosec.exchange
codinghorror@infosec.exchange

@tomwinzig @gruber speaking for myself, evangelizing getting off Twitter / Insta etc, and building open source alternatives to the massive centralized services

tms@indieweb.social
tms@indieweb.social

@gruber indieweb.social has been great!

zephyr_s@mastodon.social
zephyr_s@mastodon.social

@gruber can u explain more about “not good” part

zephyr_s@mastodon.social
zephyr_s@mastodon.social

@gruber can u explain more about “not good” part

marcus@forgor.club
marcus@forgor.club

@gruber Folk are going to suggest hosted installs but, as far as I know, the main rate limits are hard-coded into Mastodon. So you'd need an instance that patches the code to override it.

rishio@mastodon.social
rishio@mastodon.social

@gruber What exactly happens when one changes instances? Do we lose anything, like our followers? I’m a bit confused because my name is @rishio, but I assume the @rishio part could be taken on other instances so not clear how the ID would transfer over.

peterbutler@mas.to
peterbutler@mas.to

@gruber It will be very interesting to see how the economics and dynamics of Mastodon instances will evolve. I’m not a business guy, but that’s one of the most interesting things about it to me. Who’s running it and who’s paying for it, and what differentiates servers.

MattPeterman@mastodon.social
MattPeterman@mastodon.social

@gruber Roll your own or use a hosted service? Could do something like gruber@m.daringfireball.net or something along those lines.

atomicpoet@mastodon.social
atomicpoet@mastodon.social

@gruber Would you pay for managed hosting on your own domain?

jimcarroll@futurist.info
jimcarroll@futurist.info

@atomicpoet @gruber

Of course he would and most people would.

I’ve said from day 1 of my arrival here that most people will want their own on their own domain or similar name….

atomicpoet@mastodon.social
atomicpoet@mastodon.social

@jimcarroll @gruber Well, I better work hard on #SpaceHost then!

djohngo@mastodon.social
djohngo@mastodon.social

@atomicpoet @gruber If you name one of the services Brak, I'm on board.

gaj@mastodon.social
gaj@mastodon.social

@gruber I just signed up and am
moving to zork.info from mastodon.social because who doesn’t need a little more zork in their lives?

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@atomicpoet Of course I would. Same as with email, or even just actual web and database hosting.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@MattPeterman I'm not ruling that out but I don't want to be on the hook for server responsibilities, ongoing maintenance, and keeping it up with the state of the art. A good Mastodon server today is not going to be a good on even a few years from now. I’d rather pay a premium service to handle that.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@rishio Supposedly your followers, and the list of people you follow, go with you. But I’ve heard mixed results from people who do it. But your old posts don't migrate, they stay on your old account at your old instance.

MattPeterman@mastodon.social
MattPeterman@mastodon.social

@gruber 100%. Perhaps something like masto.host using your own domain. While I have no firsthand experience with the service / company, I know of several folks using it with success. Capacity and reliability would be my primary concern I suppose. For now I am sticking with the OG until something better comes along.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@zephyr_s That when a service is not available it is not good.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@matt @mastohost I'm considering that. But my gut feeling is that I'd rather see one central instance become the premium Mastodon instance. One where everyone is a paying customer, and people want to have accounts there because it's known as a great instance.

matt@author.chat
matt@author.chat

@gruber @mastohost “And now, with Apple One Max, you can use Apple’s official Mastodon…”

atomicpoet@mastodon.social
atomicpoet@mastodon.social

@gruber Well, I'm working on one such a service. I'll ping you next week!

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@albertkinng I get it. And what I'm saying is that I'd like to switch to a premium instance that is run as a for-profit business, where every user on the instance is a happily paying customer.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@jason No one is going to block mastodon.social.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@seibert @glennf @timbray @fastmail Something akin to Fastmail is exactly what I'm thinking. If it were actually run by Fastmail, all the better.

matt@oliphaunt.social
matt@oliphaunt.social

@harpaa01 @gruber well hey there. Y’all are both welcome over on oliphaunt.social. I plan to be here as long as the fediverse is.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@paul @Gargron I'm an edge case, particularly at the moment, because I'm bouncing between 3-4 clients on iPhone, iPad, and Mac trying to keep abreast of all the new clients. But what I've been seeing for the last week or so is that once or twice a day, I can't post due to a rate-limiting error, and have to wait a few minutes and retry. Sometimes the same thing keeps my timeline from updating too.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@tylerfarmer @mozilla I am too, but I'd be more interested if they charged every user.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@sathomas I think there's zero chance Apple ever wades into this.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@yuroon @codinghorror Something like that, maybe -- I’ve been trying out at least half dozen different clients across multiple devices.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@pvieito That would be a great domain for it! Both the domain name in and of itself and the historical irony.

james_s@mastodon.social
james_s@mastodon.social

@gruber they have a Patreon which I support - it seems indirect but it’s better than nothing for now perhaps?

patreon.com/mastodon

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@timbray I think I'd prefer a straight-up for-profit paid service, but a co-op model is tempting too. But either way, something that is clearly and obviously sustainable simply through paying users. That's the key.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@d Of course, but I don't want the responsibility. I just want to pay someone a fair price for the best service.

raineer@frontrange.co
raineer@frontrange.co

@gruber it's a regret that *so many* tech-literate folks chose .social or .online. These choices go against the entire point of the service. But the onboarding service really doesn't make this point clear. You only really learn after you join the service and start reading guides.

profcarroll@federate.social
profcarroll@federate.social

@gruber always glad to review applications over at federate.social and our members donate about $10 avg for the speedy server and high federation capacity.

zephyr_s@mastodon.social
zephyr_s@mastodon.social

@gruber 😂 right right right

braker1nine@social.lol
braker1nine@social.lol

@gruber @timbray I’d look at what @adam is doing with omg.lol. It’s not directly paid mastodon, but you pay and get a mastodon server and lots of other cool stuff

jason@logoff.website
jason@logoff.website

@gruber there have already been several large (tens of thousands of users) servers which have

I think all this petty tyrant stuff is bullshit but it happens

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@krinkle Micro.blog? I've been using that for years. But it doesn't jibe in my mind as a service like Twitter or Mastodon.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@braker1nine @timbray @adam That's a wonderful idea. Not quite what I'm looking for, but in the same spirit.

Brilliantcrank@mastodon.social
Brilliantcrank@mastodon.social

@gruber @d Bowie had Bowie.net

I’d pay $10 a month for df.ed.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@james_s I am a supporter, and happy to be. But the vast majority of users on Mastodon.social are not. I would prefer to be on an instance exclusive to paying customers (with perhaps “scholarships” and grants for students and artists, etc.).

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@raineer I understand that the spirit is “many instances", but it's no surprise at all that tech-literate people gravitate to the biggest instances, because experience says they're the most likely to survive and thrive.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@raineer I've been on Twitter for 17 years. I'd like to be on this Mastodon instance for longer than that. Most of the small instances around today will be long gone in 5 years, I bet.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@gaj You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.

raineer@frontrange.co
raineer@frontrange.co

@gruber I get your point, but if they've already been around 5+ years, I think there's a better chance than you might think.

I don't necessarily mean small instances like mine, but there are several great choices with 10-50k users which are not the default choice of everyone. That's the sweet spot in my opinion.

Also - if your instance dies, it's not like you can't move and take everything with you...but again - all this detail is *not* covered well during onboarding.

Your idea of a paid instance isn't guaranteed to be any better, but I get there's a different motivation. I also like to pay for my services.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@shauny Why is bigger not better? To my mind, a bigger instance is less likely to get blocked by others because of a few bad apples. No one is going to block mastodon.social. And I also thing large instances are more likely to be around for the long haul.

jason@logoff.website
jason@logoff.website

@gruber agreed

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@JustinW80 Fantastic (unbeatable?) domain name, for sure.

glennf@twit.social
glennf@twit.social

@gruber @seibert @timbray @fastmail Fastodon

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@jadeonly @nova If I had it to do all over again I might have gone with hachyderm.io instead, but at this point, I only want to switch if it's a switch to a premium commericial service.

Waiting4Thunder@mastodon.social
Waiting4Thunder@mastodon.social

@gruber ok, yeah. do you contribute to the current admin?

d@waferbaby.com
d@waferbaby.com

@Brilliantcrank @gruber This stuff exists! masto.host/

jden@aus.social
jden@aus.social

@glennf @gruber @seibert @timbray do it @fastmail

voland@social.lol
voland@social.lol

@gruber i see a lot of people recommend you social.lol (part of omg.lol). I've only been using it for a short time, but it works very well.

jason@logoff.website
jason@logoff.website

@glennf lol I left this thread hours ago with this same idea in my head

Brilliantcrank@mastodon.social
Brilliantcrank@mastodon.social

@d @gruber I can’t imagine a more perfect community than one built on Daring Fireball. It will be the new WELL.

theory@xoxo.zone
theory@xoxo.zone

@glennf @gruber @seibert @timbray @fastmail I’ve been paying to support xoxo.zone for this reason.

ehler@mastodon.cloud
ehler@mastodon.cloud

@glennf @gruber @seibert @timbray @fastmail offering their own Mastodon server would push me over the edge to finally start using Fastmail.

jkirk@hachyderm.io
jkirk@hachyderm.io

@gruber I randomly chose this instance based on a recommendation (I believe it was Upgrade?) and I haven’t noticed any fail-whales

d@waferbaby.com
d@waferbaby.com

@Brilliantcrank @gruber Could invite members only, too.

albertkinng@home.social
albertkinng@home.social

@gruber Oh! See your point. Sounds doable. (I’m not too happy with monthly payments tho, I started supportive and now I’m buried on them)

lamnatos@mastodon.xyz
lamnatos@mastodon.xyz

@gruber @shauny

Better metric is moderators/users ratio. ms.social's is poor, hence others limit them (prob. biggest one is mastodon.art). Moderation *really* works here, people expect it.

On really big instances like ms.social, every previous Twitter migration made them almost non-functioning for days until their queues caught up.

Mega-instances are antithetical to the *idea* of the fediverse. The bigger the instance, the less aligned with this place they feel.

theromit@mastodon.online
theromit@mastodon.online

@glennf @gruber @seibert @timbray @fastmail have you seen omg.lol?

mikemacleod@infosec.exchange
mikemacleod@infosec.exchange

@gruber @seibert @glennf @timbray @fastmail there are some paid Mastodon hosting services out there, and presumably there’s about to be a lot more. Would that appeal? Your own instance, but pay to make the actual care and feeding someone else’s problem.

timbray@hachyderm.io
timbray@hachyderm.io

@mikemacleod @gruber @seibert @glennf @fastmail

Exactly. But there's also the hypothesis that if you find the right instance with the right crowd on it, you've got a sort of neighborhood. Thus instances like tech.lgbtq - I've seriously considered a tiny instance just for myself & nuclear family but the jury is out.

mikemacleod@infosec.exchange
mikemacleod@infosec.exchange

@timbray @gruber @seibert @glennf @fastmail am I weird in that the local timeline on almost any instance holds no interest for me?

I guess it might be fun to run a hometown instance for a group of friends or something, but social graphs don’t usually have firm edges.

A bunch of small instances with some relays might be a better fit?

albattran@mastodon.social
albattran@mastodon.social

@gruber @paul @Gargron
Yes, the per IP limit is a major issue if multiple people are hitting the server from the same IP (think university students!)

Even gets worse if your app is server side then all your requests come from the same IP.
If Mastodon wants to have a lot of innovation, there needs to be a better anti-spam solution than per IP limits.
I understand why it exists for unauthenticated requests, but authenticated requests should be on per token basis not IP

yertle@mastodon.cloud
yertle@mastodon.cloud

@gruber I was sort of surprised Ivory didn’t run its own. The onboarding would be amazing. But maybe it’s not geared towards new mastodon users

esamecar@social.lol
esamecar@social.lol

@martinfeld @adam oh, no! don‘t fireball omg.lol 😱🤣

mathieu@social.legrand.im
mathieu@social.legrand.im

@Gargron @gruber definitively very easy to replicate when using a few clients simultaneously. My quick and dirty fix is just to increase the limit (and decrease the timeout) on my own instance for authenticated calls.

mathieu@social.legrand.im
mathieu@social.legrand.im

@paul @Gargron @gruber the ~400 items history limit in the timeline default also is too low, Twitter had ~1500

Alexbbrown@hachyderm.io
Alexbbrown@hachyderm.io

@JustMrLarz @Gargron @gruber @paul metatext had a bug where it polled the same feed multiple times when navigation pushed some views. github.com/metabolist/metatext

animatorpete@graphics.social
animatorpete@graphics.social

@gruber I feel about mastodon vs Twitter the same way I felt about Twitter vs the real world back in the day. Mastodon is calm, quiet and thoughtful. An alternative place to escape to that’s cool. Twitter is the noisy mainstream.

shauny@tech.lgbt
shauny@tech.lgbt

@lamnatos @gruber yes, what Antonis said. Lots of smaller instances block or “silence” the big one because it is not moderated properly. Smaller instances are easier to moderate. The Fediverse should not be trying to replicate the centralised nature of Twitter, it should be the opposite!

rcarmo@mastodon.social
rcarmo@mastodon.social

@gruber @timbray a small community Mastodon server, where patrons get a special tick mark next to their usernames? 😬

Seriously now, I am very wary of smaller instances due to opinionated admins. And I’ve been running a test instance for a month now, but hesitant to self-host or run a community one because I don’t want the admin overhead (or the legal hassles in case something goes south).

josephholsten@mstdn.social
josephholsten@mstdn.social

@gruber @timbray I’ve been wondering how many folks would pay for a server with transparent expenditures, paid content moderators and documented appeal/due-process.

BitchinRob@weird.autos
BitchinRob@weird.autos

@atomicpoet @gruber yes, that would be my preference (although I’m quite happy when I am on a small server with a nice community).

knardi@mastodon.social
knardi@mastodon.social

@gruber I’ve been dreaming of a Wikipedia Foundation instance moderated by volunteers and supported by donations.

sambrentnall@mastodon.social
sambrentnall@mastodon.social

@gruber I just wish moving instances gave you the option to move your past posts. Such a shame to loose your history.

joellabes@mastodon.nz
joellabes@mastodon.nz

@gruber why do you like that it's the biggest? Are you spending a bunch of time on the instance-only view or something?

adnan@1210.nl
adnan@1210.nl

@gruber @codinghorror I believe Medium is going to be eventually a premium service.

eshwarnag@mastodon.social
eshwarnag@mastodon.social

@Gargron @gruber Eugen, this is the rate limits that I am facing.
mastodon.social/@eshwarnag/109

hotcoffee@toot.community
hotcoffee@toot.community

@gruber ironically, I think a fair few people would actually pay $10/month to be on a daring fireball hosted instance - though I doubt you would be interested in that responsibility (I know I wouldn’t)

chucker@norden.social
chucker@norden.social

@abodnar @gruber I think docs.joinmastodon.org/spec/web gets you halfway there.

michael@mast.mmwelch.net
michael@mast.mmwelch.net

@gruber if you just go the personal instance route you are also unlikely to be blocked. Or you’d likely just be blocked by instances you wouldn’t mind being blocked by. Right?

WowSuchCyber@toot.zof.sh
WowSuchCyber@toot.zof.sh

@gruber @shauny are you sure of that? To me the "activist" nature of fediverse admins is one a one influencent by volume metrics.

I think it's the reverse: a big instance will have more potential user considered as offenders by a small instance and blocking can be an easier solution than reporting, which can be less well managed on a large instance because of the volume of users...

cdevroe@mastodon.social
cdevroe@mastodon.social

@gruber I see that many have already chimed in on this topic... For what it is worth, I've been researching @mastohost by @hugo and it seems every one of his customers are happy.

He recently was interviewed by @coywolf about the origins of the service: coywolf.news/podcast/interview

I plan on setting up an instance to run about 4-5 of my personal accounts.

eay@eay.social
eay@eay.social

@cdevroe @gruber I’m using @mastohost for exactly this (a handful of personal accounts, some little bots) since mid 2018 and couldn’t be happier with it or my Mastodon experience because of it.

Dylan@weird.autos
Dylan@weird.autos

@gruber
Over at weird.autos we’ve been supporting the server with a Patreon. We have $1, $2, and $5 tiers, each with benefits like voting on server issues.

We’re fully funded and are exploring options to register as an LLC to protect out admin.

splorp@mastodon.social
splorp@mastodon.social

@Brilliantcrank @d @gruber You spelled “eWorld” wrong.

eumrz@esq.social
eumrz@esq.social

@gruber @seibert @glennf @timbray @fastmail Hear, hear. Another happy long time Fastmail user here. I love the idea.

In reply to
manton@manton.org
manton@manton.org

@krinkle @gruber Thanks! I like our approach. More integrated with blogs, compatible with Mastodon, but without some of the noise. This is a huge space and carving out even a small niche for paid users is very sustainable.

Brilliantcrank@mastodon.social
Brilliantcrank@mastodon.social

@splorp @d @gruber I like where this is going. Maybe we need a FristClasa BBS and use the fresh eWorld icons that @gedeonm jist made.

dmoren@mastodon.social
dmoren@mastodon.social

@gruber @paul @Gargron I've just hit this as well with even viewing older mentions.

mjgardner@social.sdf.org
mjgardner@social.sdf.org

@garrettzumini @dmoren @gruber @paul @Gargron Reminds me of when @siracusa and @jsnell were asking @ivory to only show mentions and not boosts/faves. Popular people have different problems than the rest of us.

John Siracusa and Jason Snell asking for only mentions in the Ivory Mastodon client

dmoren@mastodon.social
dmoren@mastodon.social

@mjgardner @garrettzumini @gruber @paul @Gargron @siracusa @jsnell @ivory Doesn't mean they're not still problems. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

film_girl@mastodon.social
film_girl@mastodon.social

@phils @jmj @gruber @hotdogsladies oh shit, I got one of these accounts! I didn’t remember it included Mastodon!

phils@social.lol
phils@social.lol

@film_girl see you on the good side. It’s never been down so far - unlike other instances….

ryan@toot.beer
ryan@toot.beer

@gruber maybe buy a domain and either self-host or pay a service provider to host it for you?

Running a low user server is pretty simple and the demands are low compared to running a big centralized one.

Isn't that kind of the whole premise of a federated ecosystem?

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@ryan That is undesirable to me for several reasons. First, I don’t want to be responsible for my own server. Same goes for email — I haven’t hosted my own email since 2007. Who fixes things if there’s a DDoS? Who keeps the Mastodon software up to date?

Second, there is strength in numbers. I think it’s great that Mastodon is designed to support small servers. But being on a large popular instance makes it very unlikely that anyone is ever going to block my entire instance.

colton@enigmaticnewt.social
colton@enigmaticnewt.social

@gruber that’s why I made my own on Linode. I pay 5 dollars a month for the server, and I get to follow all the people I like with no downtime because I’m the only one on the server.

martin@gloria.social
martin@gloria.social

@gruber Why not run your own private Mastodon instance?

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@coachtony What you guys are doing is probably the closest I've seen to what my idle suggestion describes. And do love the me.dm domain name.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@martin I don't want the responsibility. Same reason I stopped hosting my own email back in 2007. Also, strength in numbers: there's no way mastodon.social or any other major instance is going to get de-federated.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@WowSuchCyber @shauny I am willing to bet you money that mastodon.social never gets de-federated by any significant instances.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@michael Possibly? It just seems like more of a gamble compared to betting on a popular instance.

WowSuchCyber@toot.zof.sh
WowSuchCyber@toot.zof.sh

@gruber @shauny maybe that single one yes, you are right. Though we should establish clear criteria's on that bet because I'm sure I can find instances that have defederated it already.

But in the circles I follow, there's infosec.exchange that is getting big fast in the cybersecurity community, managed by IBM's CISO, and I can clearly see it being defederated by the historical main mastodon instances because it's full of newcomers who clash with early adopters values like writing alt descriptions and on pics (not yet possible on @ivory ) or requesting quote toots (soon possible using ivory).

The cybersec community seems to have massively moved to mastodon and for good, it's really a subculture process, fascinating.

KingShawn@mastodon.social
KingShawn@mastodon.social

@dmoren @gruber @paul @Gargron I’m in the same boat as John for the same reasons and hitting those limits. Not a major problem but…

trbutler@mastodon.faithtree.social
trbutler@mastodon.faithtree.social

@gruber You should setup your own #DaringFireball instance! I did that using a VPS (to keep it away from my production server) and S3 storage in just a few hours after noticing @cabel spiffy instance and being curious about doing the same. It'd probably cost a bit more if you used Linode (although it'd make a great story when they sponsor the Talk Show); to make it as cheap as possible, I went with Ionos, since it isn't a critical system for me.

shauny@tech.lgbt
shauny@tech.lgbt

@WowSuchCyber just FYI, adding alt text is possible in Ivory, you just can’t *read* the alt text.

WowSuchCyber@toot.zof.sh
WowSuchCyber@toot.zof.sh

@shauny test

WowSuchCyber@toot.zof.sh
WowSuchCyber@toot.zof.sh

@shauny ooooh nice

eric@mastodon.devontechnologies.com
eric@mastodon.devontechnologies.com

@gruber @martin We have set up our own instance, mainly from a position of independence, similar like @OmniGroup. Same with our own Discourse server etc. More than once we had to act, move, or update our own services due to outside changes. We‘re now trying to minimize this. And it also gives us nice Mastodon handles 🙂

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@joellabes No, I never spend time on instance-only view. But because it’s popular with people I follow I usually don’t have redirect to favorite, bookmark, or reply to a post when I come across it on the web. Also, its size gives me confidence it will be here for the long run.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@sambrentnall It is a shame, but you can sort of understand why it isn’t practical. You wouldn’t want to all mass import of hundreds (or thousands, or more) problematic tweets. Also, the URLs would change. Cool URLs don’t change:

w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@yertle The upcoming client @mammoth is going to offer that. A great idea, interested to see how it goes.

yertle@mastodon.cloud
yertle@mastodon.cloud

@gruber @mammoth nice. So many benefits I think - easy onboarding, helps justify subscription price to people on the fence, and probably some lock-in. Hopefully moderation and admin isn’t a huge sinkhole

innonate@mastodon.social
innonate@mastodon.social

@gruber @coachtony I hope more premium communities spring up with benefits related to that community. e.g., perhaps for someone with a wide following like John, beyond just a cool domain and better rate limits you’d want easier tools for sifting through replies. Perhaps for a community like My Climate Journey there’s a private slack that pairs with the external-facing fediverse account. Obviously Medium’s super-power is going to be the connection back to the benefits of being a Medium author.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@splorp @Brilliantcrank @d dfWorld.

d@waferbaby.com
d@waferbaby.com

@gruber @splorp @Brilliantcrank Do it.

Brilliantcrank@mastodon.social
Brilliantcrank@mastodon.social

@gruber @splorp @d Where do I submit my credit card?

shilling@mastodon.social
shilling@mastodon.social

@gruber yeah, yeah…agreed. But can we make it like $2.99/mo? We all don’t have that Markdown money.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@shilling I’m not sure $3/mo/user pays for such a site, profitably.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@Brilliantcrank @splorp @d Del Frisco’s.

hans@gerwitz.com
hans@gerwitz.com

@shilling @gruber the going rate for hosting a private instance seems to be around $5/mo, so I would be optimistic a large scale instance could be profitable near 3/user.

Especially if they built on something efficient like Takahē.

d@waferbaby.com
d@waferbaby.com

@gruber @splorp @Brilliantcrank deeWorld.

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@hans @shilling Disagree. A large scale instance needs content moderators; a personal instance does not.

Brilliantcrank@mastodon.social
Brilliantcrank@mastodon.social

@gruber @splorp @d Hang on…wait a hot minute…are you saying that if I join dfWorld it comes with visits to Del Frisco’s Double Eagle Steakhouse?

gruber@mastodon.social
gruber@mastodon.social

@Brilliantcrank @splorp @d Yeah, but just you and other select customers.

shilling@mastodon.social
shilling@mastodon.social

@gruber I was being facetious, however it’s an interesting business challenge.

$10/mo is a premium value service. (Think Netflix, HBO, Hulu) As is, these services survive through the volume of subscribers month over month and AD revenue. Yes, I understand this is an over simplification…

Although you and I may subscribe, you are going to have an uphill battle reaching critical mass in order to reach profitability.

Solution in 2023? Low price and sell the user data to advertisers…Sad.

splorp@mastodon.social
splorp@mastodon.social

@gruber @Brilliantcrank @d I feel like I made the guest list.

coudal@mastodon.social
coudal@mastodon.social

@splorp @gruber @Brilliantcrank @d What time is the reservation?

alexelcu@social.alexn.org
alexelcu@social.alexn.org

@gruber You can self-host it for under $10 / month (I do it on a Hetzner VPS). It's not for everyone, but this gives me great confidence that paid and easy to use services for having your own Mastodon will become more common.

Unsure if other people mentioned this one, but pasting it just in case: masto.host/

fahrni@curmudgeon.cafe
fahrni@curmudgeon.cafe

@wezm @gruber I guess I didn’t see this thread, but I can confidently say masto.host is amazing. I’ve been with them since 2018 and they’re on top of their game.

For $6/month you get your very own instance. You could even do AT gruber AT darningfireball DOT net. @cabel did that with Panic and some web finger magic.