@jayeless it’s still confusing for me (in the U.S) that the conservatives call themselves the Liberals.
@pratik Yeah, from a US perspective I could see that seeming strange :) Perhaps it makes more sense if you consider that they arose from a merger of previously-separate conservative and liberal parties in the 1950s, based on their shared core value of economic liberalism (in contrast to Labor which, at that time, wanted a strong welfare state and more government interventionism). The conservatives have always been the larger group, though, and over the last 25 years have become especially dominant. Sort of like with the Republicans post-1980, Christian conservatives have come to control a lot of their branches and internal bodies.
@jayeless This sounds a lot like how I expect the next UK election will pan out: an uninspiring Labour Party may deprive the Tories of their majority and may pull together enough votes to form a coalition with the Lib Dems. Like you say, it’s more a case of the incumbents losing due to incompetence, corruption etc.
Because we have first-past-the-post, the Greens will do extremely well to win another parliamentary seat (they have one out of 650 at the moment). They could take somewhere like Bristol from Labour, I guess.
We had a brief spell when Labour went radical from 2015-19 (and there are signs of life in the left in other European countries, such as France), but then Brexit did for Corbyn. It’s now the same centrist managerialism that saw Britain end up where it is now 🤷🏻♂️
@leonp Yeah, I follow UK politics a little bit and it all seems deeply depressing over there. The reaction against "Corbynism" has been so severe, and Labour under Starmer looks just about as bad as ever (well, I guess we have yet to see whether he'd actually be as bad as Blair, but he looks bad). First past the post seems to make it really hard for a party to try to establish itself left of Labour too, as you say.
The world wasn’t ready for JC. And the media amplified. He also didn’t do himself any Favours.
That said - Give me labour over BoJo and the other lying clowns currently in place.
I like how Starmer talks - but you are right - it’s what he does and god help us all if he goes down the Bliar route - who I note is offering himself as an advisor to the labour party’s.
@JohnPhilpin of course: anything but the Tories 😀
I’m old enough to remember the euphoria of 1997, but New Labour was not only responsible for some terrible policies (PFI, academies, Iraq, city deregulation etc. etc.) - it also made it very easy for Cameron and Clegg to come along in 2010 and implement austerity.
@jayeless Thanks for that information. Yup, can imagine how, names aside, ideologies have shifted. Climate change is a lot bigger issue I guess in Australia than it is here (it should be).
@leonp @JohnPhilpin Oh absolutely – anything but the Tories! If it wasn't clear, when I said "about as bad as ever", I meant by the standards of the Labour Party 😃 Corbyn got crucified by the media, even by some who'd represented themselves as left-wing. He did really struggle to navigate the Brexit debate, though. At any rate, that era's gone now 😔
@pratik Climate change has fluctuated in importance here – it was a major issue in the 2007 election that Labor won, but they wrecked themselves within two terms and then the Liberals and their media allies managed to convince the public it was a non-urgent issue 🤷🏻♀️ We've had so many massive natural disasters over the last term though (bushfires in 2019–20, then multiple floods this year) that that argument seems to have worn thin. Thankfully.
@jayeless @pratik Climate change should’ve never been a partisan issue, regardless of the country or political stripes. It should be a common sense, humanity-wide issue that never gets ignored by any government. There’s no second chance for any of us with this catastrophe.
@pimoore Totally agree. It infuriates me how many short-sighted people there are in politics, and who are totally dominant in business, prioritising short-term profits from fossil fuels over like… continued human civilisation. Absolute idiots.
@jayeless I read an article two or three years ago about how the wealthy elites (including at least one fossil fuel executive I believe) are already making plans to leave the rest of us behind in a global calamity. Think secure luxury bunkers and complexes where they can ride things out. Sad part is I can totally believe it. They reap despicable amounts of profit, only before silently escaping and leaving us mere mortals with the mess they themselves contributed to the most?
Story checks out.