@manton I am really curious how stage manager might look on the iPad mini (as I am curious how it looks on any ipad to be honest! That side bar of apps is the part I'm not sure about).
The only exception I can think of is the iPad and iPhone. Those two deviced had almost exactly the same os and yet the iPhone never gained split view nor slide over and If my memory is correct, split view/slideover was limited to certain ipad models at first.
None of that means that this is (or has to be) true for the iPad and the mini of course. I like Viticci's compromise idea of a more limited stage manager for non m1 iPads.
@manton the want for Stage Manager across all iPads can be looked at as a failure of Apple to previously delegate certain hardware and software features to Pro models. They did this with ProMotion, and even with the Pencil. Portrait mode was another feature. But for the most part, Apple hasnāt done a great job of designating āproā usecases, versus personal-enough computing.
However, if in those who are asking for a neutered version of Stage Manager are doing so because Apple misconstrued (a) premise of the iPad as personal-enough computing, then it probably needs to be Apple fixing their messaging about iPad and iPad Pro, not simply making backwards compatibility a means for it to middle the message further.
@Avancee Yeah, the messaging is muddled. It's not even a Pro thing, because the iPad Air with M1 also supports Stage Manager!
@ChrisJWilson I think the side bar of apps could be hidden or simplified on the iPad Mini. The iPhone is a different thing and splitting iOS and iPadOS makes sense to me, so that each can evolve for their screen sizes. There is some gray area like iPhone Plus/Max supporting split view (inside an app) in landscape.
@manton it would have been fine to be a āproā feature if the demo showed such a use case clearly (for example, iMove/Garage Band and using the extended screen to do multi-track editing; or Zoom/WebEx/Teams presenting a deck in presentation/speaker view, w/Center Stage being shown).
The lack clarity came across louder to me than the devices which didnāt get it. Well, that and it not replacing the multitasking view. Lots of muddle
@manton Wasnāt there a feature of Monterey that only worked on M1 based systems, of did they make it work for x86 systems before shipping? I canāt remember.
@manton Not sure about the technical details but if someone develops a software technology that runs best on a certain level of hardware, should it wait to introduce it until the older hardware is obsolete or out of circulation?
@pratik Depends on the software, I guess. I think part of the unique case here is that many of the unsupported iPads are not actually "old". They are brand new devices you can buy today.
@manton Iām conflicted about Appleās decision too but as you mentioned:
Users on non-M1 hardware will understand if Stage Manager is slower or more limited ā for example, no external display support or fewer windows open at once ā and those limitations will naturally drive iPad upgrades.
The other view is that a slower or more limited will be considered sub-optimal by users and adversely affect their opinion of Stage Manager. So if itās indeed a ploy to get people to upgrade then promote the shit out of Stage Manager and make it seem like the next best thing which would also drive iPad upgrades.
@manton @pratik I have to say, conversations like this always weird me out because so much is happening in 2022... right now, super important issues playing out. It seems bizarre that we pay this much attention to such topics at all.
Have there not been previous iPhones, iPads, computers, etc that arrive that have new hardware features that previous versions, even recent "new" ones had? I don't really understand how this is actually different. Newer more expensive hardware, by definition, should mean more capability for more advanced features some of which might come at a later date.
Maybe it's just the old guy shakes fist at air thing, but it feels to me that this is just a kind of entitlement thing. If folks want the new features then they should buy the new devices. It's that simple. My 2018 iPad Pro came with 4GB of RAM and that was sufficient for me. I bought an M1 because my iPad is my primary computer. I use it for any work I do with apps like Affinity Designer, Photo and soon Publisher. I upgraded because I wanted any new features that might come. At some point new features will come or new apps that require more at which point I'll have a choice to do without or to upgrade. I'm 53 years old and I've gotten used to this reality.
Again, it may be that I'm just getting cranky but this whole discussion/debate/"controversy" is ridiculous.
@Denny @manton @pratik I have to agree with Denny on this, I donāt think this is anything deliberately malicious by Apple. Does it suck? Absolutely. Same for me the iPad is my computer, and coming from an Air 2 before buying my M1, there were features and software I couldnāt use on it. The device was too old, and I knew the performance would be abysmal even if I could run those apps I missed.
Iām also in agreement with Chris Lawley who believes this is a RAM constraint for Stage Manager to work properly. However I also surmise it may be the M1 architecture itself playing into this. Considering this is a Mac and iPadOS feature, itās not unreasonable to assume that the coding underlying it is based on that now shared chipset. Perhaps the pre-M1 SOCs are incapable of driving and allowing access to the VM swap required for S.M. to work. Swap is something macOS has always had, whereas this is a first for the iPad. Maybe itās the higher number of cores that allows it as well.
Iām sure Apple wants this feature to receive the utmost praise, so of course they want it to perform at its best. I just donāt think it was an intentional omission of older hardware.
@manton I do not use an iPad, so I have no horse in this race, but I do want to note the observation that Apple failing to consider the perspective of their users is a growing problem across all of their product lines. I am very concerned that this is such a repeating pattern.
@pimoore @Denny @manton Thatās my thought too. Itās basically a question of trade-off. Do we let people with non-supported hardware get a suboptimal experience or hold back the feature until 80-90% of their users have the hardware to support it or simply say this feature is currently for 20% of the users?
Itās not the end of the world on your iPad if you donāt have the feature RIGHT NOW; itās still a good iPad. Wait a couple of years and when you upgrade, you get that feature plus some new that will work probably only on your new iPad.
@manton @denny @pratik Not you specifically, this has just been the prevailing opinion Iāve read constantly in most other places online. My saying I donāt believe itās malicious is merely a generalization based on what Iāve seen. I canāt help but feel thereās more going on under the hood than anyone who doesnāt work on Appleās engineering team would know. Thereās another possibility that they merely want to perfect the experience first before back porting to previous but more recent hardware?
If all this is wrong, and it was a decision based purely on the latest and greatest with a push to upgrade, Iāll eat crow and join the chorus of disappointment nonetheless. š
@manton Oh, hey, yeah, agreed and apologies. I should have been more clear. My comment was really about the larger conversation that's been going on around various corners of the internet, not this specific thread or your post. And I guess I brought up the 2018 iPad Pro because that's what I had and sold. I think the general point there that I was trying to make is that for anyone who has a fairly new iPad, be it a 2018, 2020 or whatever, sometimes the latest hardware is required to take advantage of the latest software. And in this particular case, given the loud and repeated drumbeat about how over-powered the M1 iPad was for the OS, that when a set of features requiring that extra hardware is released, people complain that older hardware with less power won't support it. š¤¦āāļø
@manton Imagine the checklist you have to verify against in order to ensure you might do the things they presented that you can do.
@Denny I'm sure that irony is not lost on Apple. "You said you wanted more iPadOS features to take advantage of the M1!" They can't win. š I stand by my post, though. I can easily confirm having 4 apps in memory on my iPad Mini, switching between 2 sets of 2 apps in split view.